# How do you have any clue where to start on comic books? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 16, 2012, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-have-any-clue-where-to-start-on-comic-books/628407 "2012-07-16T13:23:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-have-any-clue-where-to-start-on-comic-books/628407/121 "2012-07-31T20:45:58Z")
I agree that that style of storytelling is boring for Superman. That’s actually why I like Superman, because he more-or-less forces any halfway decent writer to come up with something else. Batman can get away with beating up bad guys, but Superman pretty much has to be put in a situation where the challenge is to out-think them, or there’s just no drama. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-have-any-clue-where-to-start-on-comic-books/628407/122 "2012-07-31T20:47:50Z")
I’m not a Superman fan, either, pretty much for the reasons **Anaamika** listed, but Grant Morrison’s All-Star Superman was ten kinds of awesome. Which is weird, because **Anaamika** ’s description fits it almost perfectly. But it’s still one of the best comics I’ve ever read. More proof that Grant Morrison can do almost anything, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-have-any-clue-where-to-start-on-comic-books/628407/123 "2012-07-31T20:56:20Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > - I also couldn’t read **Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind**. The whole thing is Black and White and nearly pencil drawings at that. If I am going to read comic books why would I want ones without any good drawings in them? I never read the manga but I did see the animated movie. It was really good. > **[Amazon.com: Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind (Two-Disc Blu-ray/DVD Combo) :...](https://www.amazon.com/Nausica%C3%A4-Valley-Two-Disc-Blu-ray-Combo/dp/B004CRR9G0)** > > Product Description For the first time ever, the magic of Blu-ray(TM) high definition reveals the exquisite details in Hayao Miyazaki's epic masterpiece, NAUSICAÃ OF THE VALLEY OF THE WIND. Experience the film that launched the Academy... You could probably Netflix it. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-have-any-clue-where-to-start-on-comic-books/628407/124 "2012-07-31T20:56:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m not a Superman fan, either, pretty much for the reasons **Anaamika** listed, but Grant Morrison’s All-Star Superman was ten kinds of awesome. Which is weird, because **Anaamika** ’s description fits it almost perfectly. But it’s still one of the best comics I’ve ever read. > > More proof that Grant Morrison can do almost anything, I guess. Well, it does start off with Superman finding out that he’s going to die and can’t do anything about it. I mean, he doesn’t get mopey about it, but that is kind of dark. The whole premise of the series is “How does Superman spend his last year on Earth?” (Not a spoiler.) I agree that it’s great, but I disagree that it’s a good starting point. It does stand alone, but ti’s chalk-full of allusions that non-fans won’t get and things that _look like_ established parts of the Superman mythos that we should recognize but really aren’t (like Quintum, Samson & Hercules, etc). If you do read it, it also helps to know going in that it’s not a graphic novel but a series of separate but connected stories, one in each issue. That’s a form I didn’t really get until I started reading monthlies, and it’s really a key to understanding All-Star Superman. ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-have-any-clue-where-to-start-on-comic-books/628407/125 "2012-07-31T20:58:05Z")
@Anaamika If you don’t like typical Superman stories I think you’ll like Alan Moore’s take on the character. But after thinking about it, don’t read Supreme or Glory then. You need to have knowledge of all the crazy, goofy and whimsical stuff from Superman and DC Comics 60 year history to fully appreciate those stories. ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-have-any-clue-where-to-start-on-comic-books/628407/126 "2012-07-31T21:15:43Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > If you do read it, it also helps to know going in that it’s not a graphic novel but a series of separate but connected stories, one in each issue. That’s a form I didn’t really get until I started reading monthlies, and it’s really a key to understanding All-Star Superman. I thought All-Star Superman was a good comic but a little overrated. It was geared towards people who were already fans of Superman. In fact, I think that’s how DC promoted the All-Star line-up. People familiar with the more classic elements. Most non-comic fans don’t know the first Robin’s real name, or that Biblical and Mythical characters pop up in Metropolis all the time. I found Alan Moore’s Supreme story to be a better take on Silver Age Superman. I like when Supreme reveals his identity to his Lois Lane-like love interest. “Wait, you just put on a pair of glasses? Are we all idiots or something??” “Yes, over the years I always wondered about that,” Supreme replies. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-have-any-clue-where-to-start-on-comic-books/628407/127 "2012-08-02T06:37:59Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, no. The big difference between how comics are viewed in America, and how they’re viewed in pretty much every other nation in the world, is entirely down to the influence of [Fredric Wertham](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fredric_Wertham), and creation by the comic publishers of the[Comic Code Authority](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_Code_Authority) in reaction to the threat of a congressional crackdown on the industry. That was an important primary cause. But there is also historical accidence. Japanese comics have always been creator based and have often been made with a beginning, middle and end. Since the 1930s, US comics have been character/brand base. Since the writers and artists are hired help and the brand is precious, US comics have tended towards the formulaic: this applies to the dominant superhero genre but also to Archie and Donald Duck. And unlike drama, which is about change, in superhero comics and television series things stay the same. Or rather each episode (or occasionally pair of episodes) tends to end where it begins. That way it can be easily handed off to another writer. In Japan, manga has always been subject to strong commercial pressures. But when you have a writer or artist imagining whole stories rather than participating in a preconceived serial, there are simply more imaginative possibilities _regardless_ of the genre. Part of the reason for this tradition _might_ be due to chance, but the early success of Osamu Tezuka may have played a role. He was a prolific creator of stories, but he also was talented enough to take what was pure kiddie fare and raise it up several notches. Other artists saw his work and were inspired to level up as well, or even enter the industry rather than pursuing something else. From there things snowballed: better works created better readers, who provided a market for better works. Even in Japan, I understand that manga is frowned upon in certain circles and considered to be throwaway pulp by many. “It’s just manga”, they say. But they also understand that their work operates at a higher level than the US material. Reference: Bakuman and an autobiographical manga by an artist whose name escapes me. ---
**Author:** ![Sealemon2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@Sealemon2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sealemon2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-have-any-clue-where-to-start-on-comic-books/628407/128 "2012-08-04T19:32:03Z")
There is so much great stuff out there, both DC/Marvel and indie, but the first thing I thought of when I read this : "I also like sci-fi. I don’t generally like romance dirtying up my sci-fi, unless it’s superbly done and doesn’t hijack the story. - I love dystopias in any other genre, so I see no reason why I wouldn’t love them in comics." Was Ronin, by Frank Miller. Be warned though, pretty much all of the characters are unlikable in one way or the other, but DAMN that’ a great book! Excellent story AND innovative use of art to help tell the story as well. If you like Batman then I’d also suggest The Dark Knight Returns and Batman: Year One, also by Miller. Stay the hell away from the sequel he wrote though: The Dark Knight Strikes Back. Also, for a great series of essay describing the hitory an impact of various DC/Marvel superheroes I’d suggest Scott Tipton’s column Comics 101, found on [comics101.com](http://comics101.com) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-have-any-clue-where-to-start-on-comic-books/628407/129 "2012-08-04T19:51:42Z")
Anaamika: To see what can be done with black and white in American comics, get the Kitchen Sink Reprints of Will Eisner’s post WW2 Spirit. Eisner and his stable of assistants put out some incredible artwork. The stories also have a wide range: noir (the three-parter where he fights the Octopus), whimsical fantasy (“A Day at the Beach”), dark fantasy (“Lorelei Rox”), fables (“Gerhard Schnobble” is as good as LeGuin’s “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”), stories where the Spirit is a crimefighter like Batman, spoofs, science fiction (The Spirit on the Moon with Wally Wood doing the art). The character of Ebony may be a little jarring to modern readers, but Eisner also came up with some great femme fatales: P’Gell, Silk Satin, Sand Serif, etc. Re Superman: I would try Alan Moore and Curt Swan’s Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? If you like some darkness, Krypto’s encounter with The Kryptonite Man is as intense as any horror comic. For super-hero comics, I would also recommend the Paul Levitz-Keith Giffen Legion of Super-Heroes, especially the Great Darkness saga. ---
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-have-any-clue-where-to-start-on-comic-books/628407/130 "2012-08-06T19:59:01Z")
I’m not really new to comics. But, there are plenty of graphic novels I have never read. So, thanks to this thread and some research on my own I picked a bunch of books worth trying out from the library. They are on hold now, and hopefully will be available someday soon. Strangers in Paradise Vol 1 The unwritten. 1, Tommy Taylor and the bogus identity Walt Disney’s the life and times of $crooge McDuck Batman & Robin. Batman reborn Justice League International. [volume one] Superman. Whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow? Ultimate Spider-Man. Vol. 1, Power & responsibility WE3 : the deluxe edition Promethea. Book 1 Astro City : life in the big city The ones that weren’t suggested here I chose based on the author, or subject matter. If I remember I’ll come back to this thread after I have finished and offer my thoughts on what I read. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-have-any-clue-where-to-start-on-comic-books/628407/131 "2012-08-08T13:52:11Z")
I’m still reading this thread. Just thought that I’d let you know that the further recommendations have not gone awry. I do want to say, though, that I really see absolutely no reason to try and black and white comics. There’s a million gazillion comics in color. I haven’t even approached 10% of all of the great recommendations in this thread. I see no reason why I have to bore myself with b&w! I am still reading Sandman and Y the Last Man. I usually read faster, but I had to wait for the next five books of Y the Last man, and I got distracted with this month’s Kindle selection; mainly, _Life and Loves of a She-Devil_ - a very dark revenge story. pricciar, I read Scrooge McDuck. It was Ok, but it got boring and long-winded sometime in the middle of the second book. Too much filler. I will add your other suggestions to my List, howev er. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-have-any-clue-where-to-start-on-comic-books/628407/132 "2012-08-08T16:31:55Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I’m still reading this thread. Just thought that I’d let you know that the further recommendations have not gone awry. I do want to say, though, that I really see absolutely no reason to try and black and white comics. There’s a million gazillion comics in color. I haven’t even approached 10% of all of the great recommendations in this thread. I see no reason why I have to bore myself with b&w! It’s like watching movies. Yes, there’s enough color movies out there that you could watch great ones for the rest of your life and never have to watch a black and white movie. But if you never watch any black and white movies, you’ll never see _Casablanca_ or _Citizen Kane_ or _Dr Strangelove_ or _It’s a Wonderful Life_ or _Night of the Living Dead_ or _Raging Bull_ or _The Seven Samurai_ or _To Kill a Mockingbird_. You’ll miss a lot of great movies. Same thing with comic books. Yes, you can read a lot great comic books that are in color. But you’re going to miss some great comic books that happen to be in black and white. Why would anyone choose not to read _Concrete_ or _A Contract With God_ or _Love and Rockets_ or \*Neat Stuff \*or _Those Annoying Post Bros_? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-have-any-clue-where-to-start-on-comic-books/628407/133 "2012-08-08T18:16:32Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s like watching movies. Yes, there’s enough color movies out there that you could watch great ones for the rest of your life and never have to watch a black and white movie. But if you never watch any black and white movies, you’ll never see _Casablanca_ or _Citizen Kane_ or _Dr Strangelove_ or _It’s a Wonderful Life_ or _Night of the Living Dead_ or _Raging Bull_ or _The Seven Samurai_ or _To Kill a Mockingbird_. You’ll miss a lot of great movies. I’ve seen most of those. Meh. Some of them I didn’t even like! Great for their day and all. The books were better, and of course the books are black and white. But the primary difference is, in my lifetime, I plan to probably watch hundreds if not thousands of movies. I will probably only read, at the most, 100 or so comic books altogether. I don’t know if I mentioned this, but, though the stories you guys recommended are good and enjoyable, the medium as a whole is not gripping me. I find it a PITA to have to turn the page every paragraph or so; and the art is often kind of distracting rather than complementary. I certainly do like them, but they will never be my favorite. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-have-any-clue-where-to-start-on-comic-books/628407/134 "2012-08-09T05:34:03Z")
Well, you should probably at least look over a manga and like I said Nausicaa isn’t especially representative. I’d try something penned within the last 10 years. Acceptable choices might be Death Note, Naruto (Part I, avoid volumes 28+), Fullmetal Alchemist (starting book 2), Monster, Yotsuba&!, Emma, A Bride’s Story, Pluto by Naoki Urasawa or Hikaru no Go. > [@mfm](#): > > Reference: Bakuman and an autobiographical manga by an artist whose name escapes me. That would be A Drifting Life by Yoshihiro Tatsumi. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-have-any-clue-where-to-start-on-comic-books/628407.md?page=6)