There was an incident I won’t go into by I was at work my wife was at home with my daughter.
I get a call at work from the police that (being the assholes they were) made HER tell me our daughter was going to the hospital.
I rush to the hospital. When I find out how serious it was I called my mom and mother-in-law.
My mom arrives and asked that I meet her in the parking lot since she’s not sure where we are in the hospital.
My wife says that when I go out to my mom, that she was responsible and she was going to turn herself in to the police. I’m not a psychologist so I won’t try to explain why. I understand it, but I can’t explain it.
Walking to meet my mom, I tell the office there that she wants to turn herself in and not to listen to her about that. In hindsight very stupid but under great stress, people make horrible choices.
Later I read the police report. That statement I made to the cop put me as a … suspect? person of interest? I’m not really sure but it was clear the the cop thought somehow I was responsible and she had to confirm I was nowhere around during the incident. Remember that I was called at work when it happened but this was a different officer.
I made myself a suspect by talking to the police. I was 50 miles away when I talked to the original officer but this was a different officer who thought what I said was suspicious.
About ten years ago my car was stolen. When I walked out of my condo into the parking lot and realized my car wasn’t there (and that, no, I hadn’t parked it somewhere other than my usual parking spot) I didn’t hire an attorney; I called the cops.
But, what if the cops had suspected I was trying to pull some sort of insurance fraud? What if my car had been used as the getaway car in a daring heist, and the cops suspected that I was actually in on it and was trying to pull the old “report the getaway car was stolen” trick?
I do agree that lots of people historically haven’t “lawyered up” as soon as they should have. But I’m not sure that the standard line of “you should never speak to the police without an attorney” is really that helpful. Ordinary people are sometimes the victims of crimes; or sometimes their neighbors are the victims of crimes. And ordinary people don’t, as a general rule, have a criminal-defense lawyer on retainer, just waiting to be called when we realize our car was stolen/we see somebody breaking into Mrs. Grundy’s car down the block.
I question the cost/benefit analysis of either just shrugging my shoulders and saying “Oh, well, someone stole my car–no need for a police report” or of actually having a criminal-defense lawyer “on call”, so that I won’t become the victim of some hideous miscarriage of justice because I was either the victim of or a witness to a crime.
What percentage of people who report crimes to the police (without hiring a lawyer first) actually wind up getting unjustly arrested? What percentage of people who provide witness statements to the police (without hiring a lawyer first) actually wind up getting unjustly arrested?
I’m not saying making a report is the problem. I distinguish that from talking to the police. Yes obviously report the incident, you car description, license plate, etc. BUT when the police start asking:
Do you often leave your child in the car?
What is your and your spouse relationship like?
You said around 10am. Are you sure you don’t mean after 10am?
Or in my case adding unnecessary information/statements it is time to STFU.
A very dear friend of mine is also my attorney. He has stressed to me that refusing to talk with the police without legal representation present is the ideal, and that it is better to err on the side of caution.
I don’t disagree with that at all - but my point is that making a report is in fact, talking to the police and if what someone means is that you shouldn’t answer questions that seek potentially incriminating information or that you shouldn’t provide irrelevant information without a lawyer, then that is what they should say , rather than simply making a blanket statement that you should never talk to the police without a lawyer.
As always, this may vary depending on the jurisdiction, but I would not advise a client to talk to police based solely on the possession of such a document. The “DA” might not have the authority to grant such immunity and/or such immunity might not be recognized by the court. I would even be hesitant to advise a client to talk to police if there were a court order signed by the judge and filed with the clerk granting immunity. There may be courts with concurrent jurisdiction (e.g., state vs. federal or, where I’m from, district vs. circuit) that are interested in the matter.
In English, this is known as an “interview under caution” (or PACE interview in the UK).
ETA once I was out for a walk when a cop driving by told me there was a rapist on the loose nearby and asked if had I seen anybody suspicious. Other times (not in the US though) it was “papers, please.” Point is that it can be not so easy to avoid contact with the police altogether. Tending to almost impossible if you are not white enough.
Looks like you are adept at using your privilege to order others to gather your data.
But as exciting as the offer sounds, I must decline. You see I am the wrong color to do thought experiments with cops. I’d contribute to your gofundme, if you did though.
I worked graveyard shift at a gas station one college summer. Sure enough, I got held up at gunpoint. This was pre-cellphone days, and they smashed the phone to buy time. Thus, I had to flag down a cop some time later. It was a reasonably major street, so it was maybe 20 or 30 minutes.
The police put the hard press on me to admit I faked the whole thing, including searching my car without permission. It was middle of the week, third shift, and apparently I’m doing all this over the $130 or so that was stolen.
Changed my view of the police forever. They were jerks.
People in the USA have been shot by police when they were the ones who called for help. They are not there to serve and protect; they are there to charge and arrest. Many laws are written specifically to allow them to pick up almost anybody.
Ok got it. According to you, rape victims should never report the crime to the police, families should ignore missing children, and if I see someone get assaulted I should pretend it never happened. Don’t want to talk to the cops after all.
I agree that “don’t talk to the police” is advice that’s easy to give – and it’s good advice! – but it’s sometimes taken to absurd extremes. Of course people should report crimes, and if someone speeds off with my kids in their car you can bet I’m going to tell police every single detail I can think of that might help lead to their safe return. If there is an exigent circumstance where a life is at risk or a dangerous criminal is on the loose, absolutely you should “talk to the police” enough to allow them to respond to the situation.
In an ideal world people would know when they are considered a suspect in an investigation and clam up, but people are terrible at making those kinds of judgments and the cops have techniques designed to keep you talking. Like I said in another thread on this topic, it’s not like the police give you a hat that says “SUSPECT.”
And it’s not just cases of mustache-twirling officers trying to pin the crime on the easiest subject. Any statement of events, given multiple times over hours of interviews, will have contradictions and misrecollections that could reasonably look suspicious. If what you say conflicts with any other evidence the police have, that could be enough for the DA to pursue charges. Maybe truth will win out and it won’t lead to a conviction. But why take the risk, and why abet getting yourself dragged further through the process?
This James Duane video gets brought up every time this topic is discussed, and it is a fantastic discussion of all the reasons why one should not talk to the police. The cop discussing how he conducts his interviews (NOT interrogations, as he makes clear) is a highlight.
Yes, I’ve watched this video several times and it is the foundation of my question. I think it is fairly obvious that in order for the justice system to function, witnesses are necessary. I also believe as was mentioned above that not everyone has a lawyer on speed dial on their phones. In some situations, time is of the essence and not giving information to the police could delay an investigation.
But at the same time, if someone is shot outside of my house and the police come to my door and ask me what I saw, I don’t know if I should say anything or not.
Well, somebody thought it was a good idea to do that for $130. Because they did. So the cops aren’t crazy to be thinking somebody would do such a thing for so little reward. You’re certainly right that you aren’t that somebody. But they don’t know that, at least not at first.
I wasn’t there and it sure sounds like those particular cops on that particular night were real jerks to particular you. I’m not trying to debate that.
Cops get lied to by almost everybody almost all the time. As such, the “I would never do such a thing; it doesn’t make sense” though an understandable protest by you or I sounds to them exactly like the BS they get from guilty people every day.
My interpretation is this: The advice is “never talk to the police, as that may put you in danger.” Thus the only time you should talk to police is when you consider putting yourself in that danger to be worth it.
The level of danger depends on many factors, of course. Your skin color, any possible connection to the issue, whether you report anonymously, whether you are in custody, and so on. But ultimately the judgement call has to be that you are willing to accept the risk.
And I will opine that cops should be doing their best to decrease this reluctance, and that being jerks of any kind does the opposite.