# How do you know when a Republican is lying? (RO) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797 "2008-09-16T04:30:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/41 "2008-09-16T15:48:30Z")
If one is interested in actual results instead of adherence to discredited economic theories, it turns out that people in every income category do better under Democratic presidential administrations than Republican ones (except the extreme rich, who do equally well under Democratic and Republican administrations). So even people of extreme self-interest cannot point to their own well-being to justify voting Republican. Really, the only reason, from a personal economics standpoint to vote Republican is if it bothers you to see other classes of people doing better than they might. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/42 "2008-09-16T15:52:09Z")
[QUOTE=kidchameleon] Christ on a cracker, all of a sudden everything Bush has done was at the behest of McCain? Where were all the cries about the ‘McCain-Bush lies’ prior to the primaries? [/QUOTE] Johnny McCain, shameless power whore, is proving yet again what a MAVERICK he is, what a Washington outsider, by doggedly proceeding in the foot steps of Rove/Shrub. You know, the ethical and financial wizards who’ve done such a swell job with the country the past 8 years. And the taxes thing? Even flaming liberal Greenspan says McWhore’s generous plans for tax breaks won’t work. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/43 "2008-09-16T15:59:17Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Really, the only reason, from a personal economics standpoint to vote Republican is if it bothers you to see other classes of people doing better than they might. Or if the Vice President of the U.S. used to be your corporation’s CEO. Those types of companies seem to do inexplicably well under Republican administrations. Crazy, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/44 "2008-09-16T16:01:29Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > What’s retarded is not realizing that the only fair way to tax people is to tax them all at the same rate, not this “you’re successful so we’re going to take more of yours” bullshit and the refusal to recognize that the problem isn’t the taxes, it’s the size of government. I honestly don’t know anyone who thinks that they shouldn’t pay taxes at all (correction now that I think on it: I don’t know anyone making a descent living or better who thinks that. I have heard some poor people who think they should never have to pay anything(which they don’t, as a rule) because they are just so unfortunate that the world owes them a living), but govt has grown to the size that the taxes required to fund it are unreasonable. The beast needs to be starved. John McCain wants to cut taxes for everybody (and since the rich pay a disproportionate amount of the taxes, they get the biggest cuts. That is right and fair and it has the desired effect of reducing the amount of money available to govt. _It starves the beast._ )Couple that with a promise to cut spending (which mcCain has made, we’ll see if he can follow through on it when he’s elected. I’m mildly hopeful but doubtful). Obama OTOH, wants to increase taxes (but just on the rich, oh yes, just on the rich, don’t worry little middle class voter, you’ll get more from the government, oh yes you will. We’ll shovel pork down your throat until you FUCKING CHOKE as long as you elect us), increase spending, increase the size of government, increase government involvement in our lives beyond it’s already intolerable level…in short he wants to grow the beast and you’re trying to tell me this is a **good** thing? And _I’m_ the retarded one? You’re one fucked up individual. Weirddave, I feel for ya buddy, I really do, because you’re right about a lot of this. What you don’t realize is that this fight is over. It’s been over for a long time, because sheeple in America really really like it when their government spends a lot of money. Seriously, who is going to spend less? The Republicans? Give me a break. Bush massively increased the size of government with a whole new cabinet department and a Medicare entitlement that could choke a horse. The only thing the Republicans can offer you is a teency weency bit more credibility when they rail against government spending, because at one time, in the long-long ago, they may have cut a program once or twice. But railing against it and actually doing something about it are totally different things, and I’m sad to say that the “smaller government” ship has sailed. So where does that leave us, once we have accepted that neither side is going to shrink the size of goverrnment, and both are most likely going to expand it? It leaves us needing to make a decision about who is the most responsible, and that ain’t the Republicans. You may call Dems “tax and spend,” and that may be true, but Republicans are “don’t tax and still spend more,” and that’s worse. It transfers the responsibility for our selfishness off of us and on to our children, and it gives people the impression that we can just spend and spend and never have any consequences. As long as people don’t feel any consequences, they are never going to decide, as you already have, that the government needs to get smaller. Americans need to reap what we sow. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/45 "2008-09-16T16:08:34Z")
[QUOTE=Don’t Call Me Shirley] You may call Dems “tax and spend,” and that may be true, but Republicans are “don’t tax and still spend more,” and that’s worse. It transfers the responsibility for our selfishness off of us and on to our children, and it gives people the impression that we can just spend and spend and never have any consequences. As long as people don’t feel any consequences, they are never going to decide, as you already have, that the government needs to get smaller. Americans need to reap what we sow. [/QUOTE] I’m really sick of the ‘tax-and-spend-liberals’ chestnut. It’d be thrilling if the Republican party of the last decade hadn’t thrown money around like drunk sailors on leave. Unfortunately, the party supposedly in favor of fiscal responsiblity, well, lied like motherfucks about that too. It sucks but Republicans under Rove/Shrub/McShame/Creationist Barbie are tax-and-borrow ‘conservatives’. We’re in hock up to the eyeballs and won’t get out of it easily or soon. Denial, a la McShame, will just make an already dismal situation worse. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/46 "2008-09-16T16:13:31Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > am I supposed to throw my pride and integrity out the window Whether or not you adopt John McCain as a role model is up to you. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/47 "2008-09-16T16:23:17Z")
The boilerplate response to how to cut government spending is usually “cut waste. you know, wasteful stuff. That I don’t want or need or understand.” I’d like to see specifics. What programs should be cut and how much would that save. And spare me the tears about the sad people making over $600,000 a year who will have to pay more taxes under Obama’s plan. They’ve had some major tax breaks over the past 8 years. This is just playing a little catch up. To reiterate what others have said: DON’T SPEND WHAT YOU DO NOT HAVE. Yes, cut some programs. (which ones again?). BUT primarily, PAY FOR YOUR SPENDING NOW. Canada has run a budget surplus for approx. 12 years now. A surplus. The Canadian debt clock is running backwards. These days, any party in Canada that runs a budget deficit is committing political suicide. All parties in Canada came to the conclusion that they had to pay for government services NOW, and not wait for our children to pay for them. As a result, we are now paying much less than before to service the debt, and taxes for all Canadians have dropped (and will likely drop further in the future. I humbly suggest that the Democrats and Republicans get on the same page and do what is right for the country. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/48 "2008-09-16T17:08:39Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > The beast needs to be starved. Bush has been running record deficits for years. Has there been any reduction in spending as a result? The “starve the beast” strategy is stupid. It doesn’t work. Historically it has NEVER worked. You what’s really going to happen if we keep running massive deficits? Massive inflation. That’s how governments historically get rid of big debts they can’t pay. You want smaller government? Elect people who will actually cut programs. But cutting spending without cutting programs is destroying America. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/49 "2008-09-16T17:15:47Z")
> [@neutron\_star](#): > > As I said, it’s called **HAVING SOME FUCKING COMPASSION FOR THOSE LESS FORTUNATE** , you tool! > > Fuck the nearly destitute! What about _my_ bottom line? Why aren’t you taking forty percent of their minimum wage? > > Do you even have an inkling as to why so many people think that a significant portion of the conservative base consists of sociopaths who put their own bank accounts above all else? > > “It’s not fair.” :rolleyes: Compassion is a piss poor way to run a government, there’s always someone else whose sob story merits “compassion”. Compassion is not the province of government. Basic needs met for the truly destitute and that’s it. Anything beyond that is just varying degrees of socialism. If you feel such compassion for the less fortunate, then you should help them on your own hook. I do. Why do you need government to force you to do the right thing? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/50 "2008-09-16T17:17:17Z")
How’s that cite comin’? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/51 "2008-09-16T17:27:43Z")
I find it hilarious that “nuclear” was spelled out phonetically for her on her teleprompter. What an imbecile. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/52 "2008-09-16T17:30:41Z")
> [@ManiacMan](#): > > [BATA123 [NEW BRAND] - Pemenang Kompetisi Slot Gacor Tahun 2026.](http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaLies.htm) This is an awesome site. The best page is this one: > **[BATA123 \[NEW BRAND\] - Pemenang Kompetisi Slot Gacor Tahun 2026.](https://www.champagneballroom.com)** > > BATA123 merupakan website slot paling gacor yang pernah di buat manusia karena semua mengandalkan matematika saat memainkannya. Apparently, people sometimes confuse his actual name, “Obama”, with “Osama”, the name of the terrorist! Did anybody else know that? **HOW CAN ANYBODY VOTE FOR THIS MAN!?!?! HIS NAME IS SIMILAR TO A FAMOUS TERRORIST’S NAME!!!** ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/53 "2008-09-16T17:36:34Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Compassion is a piss poor way to run a government, there’s always someone else whose sob story merits “compassion”. Compassion is not the province of government. Basic needs met for the truly destitute and that’s it. Anything beyond that is just varying degrees of socialism. If you feel such compassion for the less fortunate, then you should help them on your own hook. I do. Why do you need government to force you to do the right thing? I can do the right thing. It’s the other 300 million people I’m worried about. Bottom line, I prefer to live in a country with a good standard of living for all rather than one with a good standard of living provided you can pony up the dough. And if it’s such a piss poor way to run a government, I really have to wonder why practically every country on Earth that you’d actually be comfortable living in does it that way. ETA: > [@Revtim](#): > > This is an awesome site. > > The best page is this one: > [BATA123 [NEW BRAND] - Pemenang Kompetisi Slot Gacor Tahun 2026.](http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaOsama.htm) > > Apparently, people sometimes confuse his actual name, “Obama”, with “Osama”, the name of the terrorist! Did anybody else know that? **HOW CAN ANYBODY VOTE FOR THIS MAN!?!?! HIS NAME IS SIMILAR TO A FAMOUS TERRORIST’S NAME!!!** It is, isn’t it? > [@](#): > > I have corresponded with three Chicago-area journalists, inquiring about a baptism. There is NO record, anywhere, of Barack Hussein Obama ever having been baptized. He is only a Christian because he says so – although I don’t believe the Trinity UCC church is a Christian Church – it is a Black African church and their website is very clear about that. The Trinity United _Christian Church_ is not a Christian church? That site makes my head hurt. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/54 "2008-09-16T17:37:30Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > This is an awesome site. > > The best page is this one: > [BATA123 [NEW BRAND] - Pemenang Kompetisi Slot Gacor Tahun 2026.](http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaOsama.htm) > > Apparently, people sometimes confuse his actual name, “Obama”, with “Osama”, the name of the terrorist! Did anybody else know that? **HOW CAN ANYBODY VOTE FOR THIS MAN!?!?! HIS NAME IS SIMILAR TO A FAMOUS TERRORIST’S NAME!!!** That is a funny site. Barack Obama said in 1987 that his favorite color is light blue. Yesterday, on Meet the Press, he said his favorite color is sky blue. Was he lying then or is he lying now? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/55 "2008-09-16T17:39:33Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Compassion is a piss poor way to run a government, there’s always someone else whose sob story merits “compassion”. Compassion is not the province of government. Basic needs met for the truly destitute and that’s it. Anything beyond that is just varying degrees of socialism. If you feel such compassion for the less fortunate, then you should help them on your own hook. I do. Why do you need government to force you to do the right thing? "Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses? I can’t afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned-they cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there.’ ‘Many can’t go there; and many would rather die.’ ‘If they would rather die,’ said Scrooge, 'they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population." **Weirddave** , I think you would have made out rather well in Dickens time. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/56 "2008-09-16T17:39:45Z")
So this isn’t a thread about Palin lying. It’s a thread to convince **Weirddave** of the wisdom of a graduated income tax. Maybe the ninth year will be the charm. Well played, **Dave**. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I find it hilarious that “nuclear” was spelled out phonetically for her on her teleprompter. What an imbecile. Of course she’s an imbecile, but Jimmy Carter, a noo-kyoo-lah engineeah with the Navy, pronounced it the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/57 "2008-09-16T17:40:55Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Cite? Do try to do a little better than ManiacMan. Why, cuz you didn’t like seeing your candidate’s lies in black and white? What cite do you want, dear heart? The absolute best cite out there is this one: [Obama for America](http://www.barackobama.com/). Ignore the politicizing stuff, and go right to the section where he talks about what he wants to do. Increase the size of the military. [cite](http://www.barackobama.com/issues/defense/) Hey, look, here he wants to give us $50 Billion to “jumpstart” the economy. Heh. “give”. [cite](http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/) And, hey look! He wants to institute a “windfall tax” on oil companies! No way that’ll just be passed on to consumers, no way at all.[cite](http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/) Man, that one page is a gold mine. Now the IRS gets to collect personal data on all of us, to make our lives “easier” of course.[cite](http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/) Pork for farmers! Oboyoboy[cite](http://www.barackobama.com/issues/rural/) This one’s a particular favorite of mine: Students will now be required to “volunteer” for community service in order to graduate. Sounds like a great idea, we can call then the Obama Youth [cite](http://www.barackobama.com/issues/service/) Do I need to go on? It’s all on his webpage, for anyone who bothers to go look. ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/58 "2008-09-16T17:48:50Z")
Just wanted to mention that the website **ManiacMan** linked to - “Obama’s Lies” - has a google ad offering free Obama buttons from [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/59 "2008-09-16T18:01:44Z")
When they claim to have invented the blackberry. and yes, I know it was an “aide” but if it were an Obama aide saying that about Obama, you guys know you’d be all over it. ---
**Author:** ![slitterst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecc23a/32.png) [@slitterst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slitterst)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/60 "2008-09-16T18:03:25Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > To what are you referring when you say that this policy is silly? Having more expenses than income is silly. Private citizen, corporation or government. If you have to get a loan for some reason, have a plan for repaying the loan. And that plan should not be “get another loan.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797.md?page=4)