# How do you know when a Republican is lying? (RO) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797 "2008-09-16T04:30:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/61 "2008-09-16T18:40:31Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Cite? Do try to do a little better than ManiacMan. Here. [They both lie](http://www.factcheck.org/just-the-facts/.html). Fairly frequently. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/62 "2008-09-16T19:10:17Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Here. [They both lie](http://www.factcheck.org/just-the-facts/.html). Fairly frequently. Your cite lists two distorting ads by the Obama campaign, and a series of distortions about Palin from multiple sources but NOT from the Obama campaign. And eight lying ads or direct statements by McCain/Palin. That gives them a comfortable 4/1 lead in lie ratios. ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/63 "2008-09-16T19:35:51Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Man, that one page is a gold mine. Now the IRS gets to collect personal data on all of us, to make our lives “easier” of course.[cite](http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/) You mean this part? > [@](#): > > Obama will ensure that the IRS uses the information it already gets from banks and employers to give taxpayers the option of pre-filled tax forms to verify, sign and return the evil bastard!! Having them use information they **already get**. No wonder you don’t trust him. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/64 "2008-09-16T19:42:39Z")
> [@HongKongFooey](#): > > You mean this part?the evil bastard!! Having them use information they **already get**. No wonder you don’t trust him. I DON’T trust anyone who thinks government agencies maintaining and expanding databases on citizens is a good idea. When a Bush agency tries to do that kind of thing, the left howls bloody murder, but it’s A-OK when their guy proposes it. DHS looking at library records is an infringement on liberty sure to doom us all to fascism but the IRS collecting and storing information on our personal finances is the next step on the road to freedom? Please. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/65 "2008-09-16T19:49:15Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Yea it’s better to liken to her the intellectually impotent asstard batshit crazy fundamentalist economy trashing menace she is. > Republicans are traiters and should move to Cuba running human trash like that. Shame on you, writing a post like this. It’s traitors. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/66 "2008-09-16T19:50:41Z")
So you think the best thing to do is vote for the party of warrantless wiretaps and unfettered snooping? ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/67 "2008-09-16T19:55:16Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Jesus fucking Christ, have y’all lost your minds lately and COMPLETELY forgotten what consitutes a _cite_? Or are you JUST THAT FUCKING STUPID? > > Never mind, a brief search of your posts suggests “just that fucking stupid”. Wow could you give me an example of how to cite something properly? I just want to learn… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/68 "2008-09-16T20:03:32Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > I DON’T trust anyone who thinks government agencies maintaining and expanding databases on citizens is a good idea. When a Bush agency tries to do that kind of thing, the left howls bloody murder, but it’s A-OK when their guy proposes it. DHS looking at library records is an infringement on liberty sure to doom us all to fascism but the IRS collecting and storing information on our personal finances is the next step on the road to freedom? Please. OMIGOD the IRS knows how much I make. Alert the Media! Oh, the humanity! BTW, do you really think fairness requires taking 20% both from Bill Gates and a hard working janitor making minimum wage and barely scraping by? I’m still waiting on where the budget can get cut realistically. Maybe it is McCains eliminating the earmarks tp pay for a 10 X tax cut - I mean before he put the earmark lover on the ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/69 "2008-09-16T20:05:59Z")
> [@Pochacco](#): > > Bush has been running record deficits for years. Has there been any reduction in spending as a result? > > The “starve the beast” strategy is stupid. It doesn’t work. Historically it has NEVER worked. > > You what’s really going to happen if we keep running massive deficits? Massive inflation. That’s how governments historically get rid of big debts they can’t pay. > > You want smaller government? Elect people who will actually cut programs. But cutting spending without cutting programs is destroying America. Maybe we should call Republicans economic creationists. They can look right at the fossils / economic results and they don’t register it. No matter what the evidence is, their faith is strong. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/70 "2008-09-16T20:06:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > So you think the best thing to do is vote for the party of warrantless wiretaps and unfettered snooping? How else are they going to detect the malware? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/71 "2008-09-16T20:09:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Says Martin, “Perhaps there were moments where it scrolled slightly past her exact point in the speech. But I was sitting in the press section next to the stage, within easy eyeshot of the teleprompter. I frequently looked up at the machine, and there was no \*\*serious \*\*malfunction. A top convention planner confirms this morning that there were no major problems.” How do we know for certain that he “frequently” looked at the machine? How do we know that it wasn’t screwing up intermittently? How can we verify his claims? Is anyone else stepping up in agreement with this guy? He says there wasn’t an “serious” malfinction, but it could easily be an _intermittent_ issue that would throw Mrs. Palin off a bit…timing is everything you know. I don’t think she lied at all. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/72 "2008-09-16T20:10:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > So you think the best thing to do is vote for the party of warrantless wiretaps and unfettered snooping? Yes, because at least they won’t GROW GOVERNMENT!!!11!!one!!1 ---
**Author:** ![Rack-a-Bones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rack-a-Bones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rack-a-Bones)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/73 "2008-09-16T20:20:34Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > I DON’T trust anyone who thinks government agencies maintaining and expanding databases on citizens is a good idea. When a Bush agency tries to do that kind of thing, the left howls bloody murder, but it’s A-OK when their guy proposes it. DHS looking at library records is an infringement on liberty sure to doom us all to fascism **but the IRS collecting and storing information on our personal finances** is the next step on the road to freedom? Please. Whah? The IRS stores information on my personal finances? Holy crap! Oh, and the McCain thing about the Blackberry… he didn’t invent the Blackberry, he invented telecommunications… we should give him due credit. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/74 "2008-09-16T20:20:35Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > OMIGOD the IRS knows how much I make. Alert the Media! Oh, the humanity! > > BTW, do you really think fairness requires taking 20% both from Bill Gates and a hard working janitor making minimum wage and barely scraping by? > > I’m still waiting on where the budget can get cut realistically. Maybe it is McCains eliminating the earmarks tp pay for a 10 X tax cut - I mean before he put the earmark lover on the ticket. I’m against it on principle. Someone asked for a list. I gave one. OK, that one doesn’t bother you. _shrug_ Above a certain point, say maybe 200% of the poverty level? Absolutely. And I did the numbers too, for myself. Such a tax would cost me at least 10K more in taxes each year than I pay now, and I still think it’s the only right and fair way to tax. Cuts? Seems pretty simple to me. Start will most or all of the Depts of Education, HHS, HUD, Indian Bureau (whatever it’s called now), OSHA, EPA, transportation, energy, homeland security, and agriculture. Require the remaining agencies that they have to give up 10% of their budget. Then make them give 10% next year, and the year after that. Make defense give up 15%. Privatize SSA. Rewrite the tax code and slim down the IRS by at least 50%. Cuts? Sensible cuts are easy to decide on, but nobody has the will to implement them. Nobody. That would be a good start. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/75 "2008-09-16T20:48:26Z")
So, simply disembowel the Federal Gov.? Thank heavens, I thought you were proposing something radical. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/76 "2008-09-16T23:08:51Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > What’s retarded is not realizing that the only fair way to tax people is to tax them all at the same rate, not this “you’re successful so we’re going to take more of yours” bullshit and the refusal to recognize that the problem isn’t the taxes, it’s the size of government. Under a flat tax, rich people would still pay a helluva lot more taxes than the poor, so they’d still be subject to the “you’re successful so we’re going to take more of yours” mandate. The only thing making your utopic vision “fair” is that the rate would happen to be the same. But what does that matter if the average taxpayer’s bottom line is the _amount_ of money they have, not the percentage of the gross. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/77 "2008-09-16T23:14:00Z")
> [@ManiacMan](#): > > How do we know for certain that he “frequently” looked at the machine? How do we know that it wasn’t screwing up intermittently? How can we verify his claims? Is anyone else stepping up in agreement with this guy? He says there wasn’t an “serious” malfinction, but it could easily be an _intermittent_ issue that would throw Mrs. Palin off a bit…timing is everything you know. I don’t think she lied at all. We can tell because we can look at the video, which corroborates this guy’s account. In fact, there must be tape somewhere that has the whole speech shot from behind her so you can see the teleprompter as she is speaking. Go find it and show us where it deviates. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/78 "2008-09-16T23:15:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, simply disembowel the Federal Gov.? Thank heavens, I thought you were proposing something radical. **elucidator** , you silly monkey! The free market and responsible corporations will look after everything, and be far more efficient at it. Nothing could possibly be wrong with that sensible proposition. For example, here in Canada, we have a stupid agency that is supposed to hire meat inspectors to check out processing plants. What a waste! It would be much more efficient if the companies themselves would look after public safety, and then we could all enjoy a nice tax cut. [http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/opinion/story.html?id=4c766c12-5dbb-447d-bdc1-4d11ed242372](http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/opinion/story.html?id=4c766c12-5dbb-447d-bdc1-4d11ed242372) Never Mind. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/79 "2008-09-16T23:23:26Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Under a flat tax, rich people would still pay a helluva lot more taxes than the poor, so they’d still be subject to the “you’re successful so we’re going to take more of yours” mandate. The only thing making your utopic vision “fair” is that the rate would happen to be the same. But what does that matter if the average taxpayer’s bottom line is the _amount_ of money they have, not the percentage of the gross. I know they would pay more, but both would be paying the same percentage, which is fair. I completely don’t understand your last sentence, could you explain what you mean? Different people have different amounts of money…oh kay…so? ---
**Author:** ![A\_shameful\_cracka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@A\_shameful\_cracka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_shameful_cracka)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797/80 "2008-09-16T23:30:02Z")
> [@HongKongFooey](#): > > From the link:yup, she’s presidential material all right. I noticed in the Gibson interview she was saying “nucular”, I guess they fixed that pretty quick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-know-when-a-republican-is-lying-ro/463797.md?page=5)