# How do you (or the people in general) benefit from someone else's education in high education institutions? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 16, 2020, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-or-the-people-in-general-benefit-from-someone-elses-education-in-high-education-institutions/920749 "2020-09-16T08:57:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2020, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-or-the-people-in-general-benefit-from-someone-elses-education-in-high-education-institutions/920749/21 "2020-09-17T14:42:58Z")
> [@MaverocK](#): > > If he or she isn’t going to be a researcher with a PhD in a certain field who will pursue “life improving” or “life changing” work, how can we benefit from this individual’s education? She/He isn’t going to find a “solution for infectious diseases” (for example) with his master’s degree in business or economics. So what is the point of his/her studies? Good luck teaching the next generation, dude. My college education and graduate work enabled me to teach for the last 35 years. A rather wide array of subjects as well: English 9 & 11, Earth Science, World Geography, Modern World History, Economics, American Government, AP European History, Speech & Debate. I’d say your tax dollars got a deal. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-or-the-people-in-general-benefit-from-someone-elses-education-in-high-education-institutions/920749/22 "2020-09-17T15:47:25Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > It’s possible to get education without getting a degree.Are you implying that it’s only the degree that matters, and not the education acquired in the process of obtaining that degree? [The Wizard’s Speech to the Scarecrow](http://www.moviequotedb.com/movies/wizard-of-oz-the/quote_26336.html): > [@](#): > > Why, anybody can have a brain. That’s a very mediocre commodity! Every pusillanimous creature that crawls on the earth or slinks through slimy seas has a brain! Back where I come from, we have universities, seats of great learning where men go to become great thinkers. And when they come out, they think deep thoughts — and with no more brains than you have. But! They have one thing you haven’t got! A diploma! Therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Universita Committeeatum E Pluribus Unum, I hereby confer upon you the honorary degree of Th.D. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2020, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-or-the-people-in-general-benefit-from-someone-elses-education-in-high-education-institutions/920749/23 "2020-09-17T16:03:39Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > If people have a better all-round education they will tend to make smarter decisions all round. > > Education teaches you critical thinking, how to analyse, parse information, and communicate ideas. Even if you don’t work in the specific field you studied it makes you better at your job, which benefits your company and your industry. It might help you to make better life choices - although you’ll still be free to make a mess of things. With better education, people will elect better presidents. And those presidents, with better education, will be better presidents. This is not hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-or-the-people-in-general-benefit-from-someone-elses-education-in-high-education-institutions/920749/24 "2020-09-17T19:35:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > This is true. But I feel the more important employment skill is that getting a college degree shows you can finish a plan that was set up by somebody else. > > I could, for example, set myself the goal of riding my bicycle five thousand miles in a year or learning to speak Japanese. These are worthwhile goals - but they’re goals I chose. > > A potential employer is going to be more impressed if I can demonstrate that somebody else set a major goal for me and I was able to achieve it. It’s not like all undergrads in the same college march in lockstep. Your major, the courses you take, your grades, and sometimes the research you do as an undergrad is particular to you. Even more so at the PhD level. When I hired PhDs I’d always prefer those who set their own research goals to those who got a project from their professor. That’s what I did and that’s what my daughter did. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-or-the-people-in-general-benefit-from-someone-elses-education-in-high-education-institutions/920749/25 "2020-09-18T00:07:37Z")
I think you and @Little_Nemo are both right. A college degree demonstrates the ability to finish a plan established by someone else. But it also demonstrates some degree of self-directedness too. A potential employee who can show evidence of both abilities will have an advantage over the employee who can’t. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-or-the-people-in-general-benefit-from-someone-elses-education-in-high-education-institutions/920749/26 "2020-09-18T00:18:54Z")
If a bunch of college graduates insist that a college education benefits anyone but themselves then it must be true. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-or-the-people-in-general-benefit-from-someone-elses-education-in-high-education-institutions/920749/27 "2020-09-18T00:33:55Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > > [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > > > you have shown that you have the ability to finish something that you started. That you understand and place importance on achieving a goal and that you have the ability to go through the grind to get there. In the real world this is one of the most important skills you can obtain. > > That’s one thing it could show. It also might show that you just managed to pick a task/commitment that makes you happy or is easy for you. It might not not show at all one’s ability to remain bound to a long-term obligation that is not rewarding or otherwise poses challenges. Don’t assume all college grads have “the ability to go through the grind” or that drop-outs or never-attends don’t. > > > [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > > > People who drop out their studies senior year piss me off and/or disappoint to no end. The same with people who get dishonorable discharges from the services. > > Why does it “piss you off”? What about my not completing four years of school inspires you to be angry? What about this tiny fact of my life has the power over your emotions this way? It doesn’t “piss me off” but unless you dropped out to found a billion dollar software company or something, it shows poor and impulsive judgement. Like why go through the time and expense of 3+ years of college and not grind it out the final year so you at least have a degree? I’ve had this conversation before with less educated people. Many of them have done well professionally. Many were just dumbasses that thought that because they weren’t homeless they were “doing ok” without an education. The “benefit” of higher education is that most 18 year old high school graduates don’t know shit about shit. So the question is how does one go from “not knowing shit” to learning enough to get their foot in the door someplace where they can learn real valuable skills? Also, take a look at the state our country is in because most people don’t know basic science or how to read a freakin graph. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2020, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-or-the-people-in-general-benefit-from-someone-elses-education-in-high-education-institutions/920749/28 "2020-09-19T03:38:27Z")
> [@MaverocK](#): > > If he or she isn’t going to be a researcher with a PhD in a certain field who will pursue “life improving” or “life changing” work, how can we benefit from this individual’s education? While there are exceptions, generally speaking a person who is reasonably well-educated is going to be less of a drain on society than people who are not. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-or-the-people-in-general-benefit-from-someone-elses-education-in-high-education-institutions/920749/29 "2020-09-20T23:49:11Z")
There’s an entire subfield in higher education on the returns on the investment in a degree. There are personal benefits (the lifetime earnings benefit for a bachelor’s degree is over $1 million), but also social benefits (better health–people with degrees tend not to smoke), community benefits (degree holders tend to support the arts and public education, such as libraries), and political benefits (more engaged, likely to vote, etc.) I would say it’s dangerous to assume that someone who does not finish their degree is a “quitter.” Doctoral programs are tough, and many students are underfunded. There’s also a great deal of isolation, and unless you live with people who have also earned doctorates, there’s often a lack of understanding of what the work of a doctoral student/candidate is like. There are also many hurdles (comprehensive exams, qualifying exams, proposing the dissertation, data collection, writing, analysis, and of course defending the damn thing). Mental health issues are rampant in doctoral programs. I’ve been a professor for 14 years and while most of my students have successfully defended and earned their doctorates, some did not. I don’t think I would characterize them as “quitters,” as they wouldn’t have gotten into a good program and persisted if they were. A lot of times it’s family issues–I’ve had students go through breakups or divorces, or realize they haven’t had time to spend with their kids. It’s a very solitary experience so you can see how people would sometimes find themselves quite alone in the process. ---
**Author:** ![MaverocK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@MaverocK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaverocK)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-or-the-people-in-general-benefit-from-someone-elses-education-in-high-education-institutions/920749/30 "2020-10-03T00:14:57Z")
Would you please elaborate? You could also give more examples. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MaverocK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@MaverocK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaverocK)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2020, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-or-the-people-in-general-benefit-from-someone-elses-education-in-high-education-institutions/920749/31 "2020-10-03T00:16:51Z")
What do you mean by “good luck teaching the next generation”? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2020, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-or-the-people-in-general-benefit-from-someone-elses-education-in-high-education-institutions/920749/32 "2020-10-03T00:24:53Z")
Teachers are a direct answer to the OP’s question. Without them, civilization is lost. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2020, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-or-the-people-in-general-benefit-from-someone-elses-education-in-high-education-institutions/920749/33 "2020-10-03T01:20:26Z")
> [@MaverocK](#): > > When you study at a university (whether it is undergraduate, graduate or PhD), you are “supposed to be” a more sophisticated and knowledgeable individual. Is it really so? Do you really believe in it? If he or she isn’t going to be a researcher with a PhD in a certain field who will pursue “life improving” or “life changing” work, how can we benefit from this individual’s education? She/He isn’t going to find a “solution for infectious diseases” (for example) with his master’s degree in business or economics. So what is the point of his/her studies? I have an MBA. When I lead a team of consultants (with advanced degrees in computers, business, etc) to implement some technology / business solution at Celgene, Regeneron, or Pfizer, does that not better enable those companies to “find solutions for infectious diseases”? I am just a believer in that a smarter, better educated population collectively makes better, smarter decisions that ultimately benefits everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2020, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-or-the-people-in-general-benefit-from-someone-elses-education-in-high-education-institutions/920749/34 "2020-10-03T22:47:17Z")
Whenever I see someone in the media talking about the value of higher education to our society, they are representing the university sector. And people at higher education institutions, in general, benefit from the education of someone in their higher education institutions. Apart from their personal benefit (which drives the political discourse), funding higher education is one of the ways the Australian government does wealth re-distribution, while giving people something to do, and keeping people out of the unemployment statistics. Re-distribution of wealth is important in Australia, because we are largely funded by mining levies. In order to support this policy, the government also supports restrictive credentialism. You want to be a doctor (or a hairdresser)? Add more certification post graduation for certificate of practice. Want a certificate of practice? First get your engineering/medical/law/business degree or trade certificate. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-or-the-people-in-general-benefit-from-someone-elses-education-in-high-education-institutions/920749/35 "2020-10-04T00:35:32Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > would say it’s dangerous to assume that someone who does not finish their degree is a “quitter.” Doctoral programs are tough, and many students are underfunded. There’s also a great deal of isolation, and unless you live with people who have also earned doctorates, there’s often a lack of understanding of what the work of a doctoral student/candidate is like. There are also many hurdles (comprehensive exams, qualifying exams, proposing the dissertation, data collection, writing, analysis, and of course defending the damn thing). Mental health issues are rampant in doctoral programs. I agree with all this, but also would add that not everyone enjoys the kind of work you do in a doctoral program. My wife didn’t, and that was the reason she left, not any trouble with quals etc. My older daughter loves research, like me, my younger daughter had no desire to do any. I know someone who left a PhD program because of his professor. It wasn’t just him - one student of this professor jumped off a bridge because of him. He eventually returned and finished. I was lucky and had good professors. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-or-the-people-in-general-benefit-from-someone-elses-education-in-high-education-institutions/920749/36 "2020-10-14T09:16:57Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > It wasn’t just him - one student of this professor jumped off a bridge because of him The guy who supervised my brother had a string of complaints, was reduced to selecting students from other institutions, and was barred from accepting students after my brother quit. In contrast, I never quit. Realistically, I’m just not as smart as my brother is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-or-the-people-in-general-benefit-from-someone-elses-education-in-high-education-institutions/920749.md?page=1)