# How do \*you\* pronounce "forte"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 20, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765 "2022-05-20T14:53:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/61 "2022-05-21T00:39:37Z")
I was looking for this exact citation, which I used to have in paperback form. One comment that version included was something to the effect of, if you’re going to insist on “fordt” instead of “for-tay”, you’re going to have to pronounce the punctuation mark as “apostrof” instead of “apostrophe “, and so on. The overall tone as I recall it was “either way is technically acceptable, but one is more pedantic “. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/62 "2022-05-21T09:58:52Z")
Add me to the list of people (insofar as there appears to be a list) who choose not to use the word in speech because of a combination of (a) the confusion it engenders and (b) a disinclination to pronounce the word incorrectly to minimize that confusion. I use it in writing, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/63 "2022-05-21T14:31:00Z")
I say for-tay because I studied french for years. I never studied italian. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/64 "2022-05-21T14:40:33Z")
I may as well post this in this thread. Porsche is pronounced ‘POR-shuh’ (more or less). Having owned a couple, and having had German classes in high school and college, it grates when I hear people pronounce it ‘PORSH’. Let alone it’s German, and the ‘e’ is pronounced in German, it’s a guy’s name. Pronouncing it ‘PORCH’ is like pronouncing the cars named after Louis Chevrolet ‘chev-RAH-lett’ (hard ‘ch’ as in ‘cheese’). ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/65 "2022-05-21T14:49:07Z")
For-tay, neesh, cash, rifle. That’s the way I learned 'em, and that’s the way I say 'em. This is the first I’ve heard of pronouncing it ‘fort’, and I consider “nitch” to be wrong, and I consider “riffle” and “rifle” to be related but separate words. (The former being how you shuffle a deck of cards, the latter being how you search through something.) Though to be honest, when it comes to uncommon words it’s pretty much sheer chance whether or not I’ll pronounce them correctly. I learned much of my lexicon from books, and ones without pronunciation guides at that. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/66 "2022-05-21T14:52:33Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I learned much of my lexicon from books, and ones without pronunciation guides at that. I think a lot of us here did. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/67 "2022-05-21T19:48:41Z")
We don’t have a uniform standard of anglicizing the pronunciation of words that originated in other languages. If you pronounce the borrowed word for existential fear as “ayyngst” and not as “ahhhhngst” you’re in no position to point fingers about fortay. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/68 "2022-05-21T19:54:05Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > We don’t have a uniform standard of anglicizing the pronunciation of words that originated in other languages. We don’t have a uniform standard for pronouncing anything else, so it would be inconsistent to be consistent in our pronunciation of adopted words. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/69 "2022-05-21T20:16:35Z")
I say FOR-tay and consider it to be correct. Because the meaning of the imported Italian musical term and the French derived term were so similar, they wound up merging into a single pronunciation. What I’d be interested in knowing is at what point the word was actually pronounced a homonym of “fort.” I know it was originally imported as being spelled “fort,” but was it pronounced with that final T when it was only a sword term? Did it change over time, and that’s why the E got added? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/70 "2022-05-21T20:58:36Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > What I’d be interested in knowing is at what point the word was actually pronounced a homonym of “fort.” I know it was originally imported as being spelled “fort,” but was it pronounced with that final T when it was only a sword term? Did it change over time, and that’s why the E got added? Earliest source I have on hand is Century Dictionary, 1889, which gives one pronunciation (fort) but it allows that the word may be spelled forte or fort. Before about 1961, dictionaries were very prescriptivist though, so I’m sure that the second syllable was being routinely pronounced as far back as the 1700s, when final e was added. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/71 "2022-05-21T21:18:21Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I know it’s _fort_ , but I say _for-tay_ because nobody would understand me otherwise. I say _fort_ because it’s correct, and I’m a stickler for shit like that. Aside: I just noticed that today is my cake day. Now I want cake! ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/72 "2022-05-21T22:14:28Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I say _fort_ because it’s correct, and I’m a stickler for shit like that. So when you say you’re a stickler for shit like that, you mean that it’s your /ˈfɔr teɪ / ? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/73 "2022-05-21T22:26:02Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Earliest source I have on hand is Century Dictionary, 1889, which gives one pronunciation (fort) but it allows that the word may be spelled forte or fort. > > Before about 1961, dictionaries were very prescriptivist though, so I’m sure that the second syllable was being routinely pronounced as far back as the 1700s, when final e was added. Note that both _fort_ and _forte_ would be one-syllable words in French. (_forté_ would be two syllables.) I haven’t looked it up, but I might guess that the French added an _-e_ to emphasize that the _t_ wasn’t silent. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/74 "2022-05-21T22:28:23Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I might guess that the French added an _-e_ to emphasize that the _t_ wasn’t silent. Aren’t _fort_ and _forte_ just masculine and feminine forms of the same adjective? Or am I misunderstanding your point? It’s true that the “t” is silent in the masculine, not in the feminine. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/75 "2022-05-21T22:31:38Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Aren’t _fort_ and _forte_ just masculine and feminine forms of the same adjective? Or am I misunderstanding your point? My point is that French spelling and pronunciation have changed a lot since the Norman Conquest, when a lot of mediaeval French words first entered English, so I don’t know what the exact sequence of events was. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/76 "2022-05-21T22:36:36Z")
Forte entered the English language as fort in the 1640s or thereabouts (a fencing term, I believe). It attained the meaning of one’s strong suit about 1680. By the late 1700s, the final e was added. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/77 "2022-05-21T22:39:58Z")
Note also that _forté_ is not a word. You would have to say _fortifié(e)_ (fortified). Anyway that refers to modern French. In Old French the “t” would (I guess) have been pronounced but the subjective masculine singular was _forz_, not _fort_ (cf. Latin “fortis”/“fortem”). I mean the adjective, not the fortress or castle. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/78 "2022-05-21T23:26:31Z")
I can say for-tay, or I can say “It’s not my strong suit.” It depends on the audience. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/79 "2022-05-21T23:31:06Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > That’s why I say ‘bailiwick’ (area of operations). Your _forte_ would be more like being _in your wheelhouse_ rather than _within your bailiwick_, which is more akin to _within your jurisdiction_ or _mandate_. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765/80 "2022-05-21T23:45:31Z")
Though, now that I look at the OED, it explains that the English form is supposed to be based on the _feminine_ French adjective (like locale, morale, etc.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-forte/964765.md?page=5)