# How Do You Pronounce 'Siobhan'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 22, 2004, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601 "2004-06-22T10:08:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/41 "2004-06-23T11:17:08Z")
**Ponster** : vegetarian. **Curly** : IPA. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/42 "2004-06-23T12:33:33Z")
> [@Dr. Rieux](#): > > And then there are all these American girls named Caitlin, pronounced “_Kate_-Lynn.” IMHO, Kate Lynn is a prettier sounding name than Kathleen or Colleen, and that Caitlin is a prettier spelling than Katelynn. I think people need to accept that there are two names that are spelt the same but pronounced differently and one doesn’t make the other less valid. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/43 "2004-06-23T12:38:07Z")
> [@cazzle](#): > > IMHO, Kate Lynn is a prettier sounding name than Kathleen or Colleen, and that Caitlin is a prettier spelling than Katelynn. I think people need to accept that there are two names that are spelt the same but pronounced differently and one doesn’t make the other less valid. Noone said anything about one being more valid than the other, I just am a sucker for traditional spellings of Irish names. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/44 "2004-06-23T12:47:51Z")
Do a lot of these people giving their kids names with Gaelic spellings actually speak, you know, Gaelic? ---
**Author:** ![YoudNeverGuess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a587f6/32.png) [@YoudNeverGuess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoudNeverGuess)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/45 "2004-06-23T12:49:23Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > My Aunt had a suitor when I was a kid, the name of whom was pronounced “La-Vaughn”. I’ve always assumed “Lavonne” or “LaVaughn” but by any possibility might it have been Liobhan or something? Yeah I’d also say it’s probably taken from a French name or something (though that’s a guess) Still I did know a girl called Líobhán once and she pronounced it lee-uh-VAWN. Not a common name though. Caitlín is Kathleen (imagine someone saying it with a Kerry or Galway accent). I didn’t think the fada on the a was necessary but if it is well then in other parts of the country they might pronounce it Cawt-leen (sort of - it _is_ hard to write…) My aunt called her daughter Sorcha (pronounced Sur-ih-kha (sort of)) and she calls her Sore-sha and she’s Irish :smack: When I spent a summer in America people used to call me Nymah (Niamh). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![YoudNeverGuess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a587f6/32.png) [@YoudNeverGuess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoudNeverGuess)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/46 "2004-06-23T13:03:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Do a lot of these people giving their kids names with Gaelic spellings actually speak, you know, Gaelic? Well here everyone (unless given a special dispensation) studies Irish (Gaelic)) in school from the start so most people would speak a little and many of the names are so common that people just know how to pronounce them when they read them. If you have a more unusual Irish name some people who weren’t so hot at Irish in school might not be able to spell it right or read it if they haven’t encountered it before, though others who were better at Irish will. There are also some variant spellings of different names, some more antiquated than others. For example my sister’s name is Méadhbh - and old spelling of the name Maeve (anglicised). Some people spell it Méadb - even older. In old Irish the d and the b would have had a dot called Séimhú (sp?) - pronounced Shay-voo - above them to signify what was later written as ‘h’. I think anglicised spellings of Irish names touch a subconscious nerve in the Irish psyche that developed as a result of forced anglicisation of many place names and other words - symbols of the suppression of the language and repression of the people. There is debate in Ireland as to whether Irish should be compulsory in schools anymore so, as a result of colonisation, the language is nearly extinct and there is a strongish lobby to keep it alive. That’s why some people get a little pissed off with people (particularly Irish people) who deliberately anglicise spellings of their Irish names… ---
**Author:** ![YoudNeverGuess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a587f6/32.png) [@YoudNeverGuess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoudNeverGuess)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/47 "2004-06-23T13:08:59Z")
I meant _oppression_ of the people (though maybe some are a little repressed as well 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/48 "2004-06-23T13:12:24Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > Noone said anything about one being more valid than the other, I just am a sucker for traditional spellings of Irish names. I should have indicated that I wasn’t referring to anyone here. My comment was in reference to people I have seen who get all uptight about it not being pronounced right, when it’s really a different name with the same spelling. ---
**Author:** ![Shrinking\_Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Shrinking\_Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shrinking_Violet)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/49 "2004-06-23T13:20:19Z")
**ruadh** - is this an actual name, and if so, how is it pronounced? ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/50 "2004-06-23T13:27:58Z")
-dh is generally silent, so it would normally be pronounced something like _Roo-A._ **Ruadh** means ‘red’ or ‘reddish brown’ - If it was ‘Nighean Ruadh’ it would be red-haired girl. Appropriate, I believe. **Ruadh** is also a character from ancient Irish mythology, although, IIRC, it was a he, so I doubt very much this is where our **Ruadh** has chosen to take her name from. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/51 "2004-06-23T15:03:22Z")
> [@YoudNeverGuess](#): > > Caitlín is Kathleen (imagine someone saying it with a Kerry or Galway accent). I didn’t think the fada on the a was necessary but if it is well then in other parts of the country they might pronounce it Cawt-leen (sort of - it _is_ hard to write…) Someone suggested Catch-lynn as a pronounciation once 😕 My parents were both educated in the Irish Republic so they both have a grasp of the Irish language (my Dad’s isn’t as good as he’d like to think 😛 ) I never learnt anything more than “close the door” and “welcome” and my forenames are equally un-irish, Alastair Clinton being a tribute of sorts to the now dead Protestant-Scottish branch of our family 🙂 Although I’ve noticed its only actually Scottish people who spell it the way I do and recognise it as a scottish name. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/52 "2004-06-23T15:10:45Z")
> [@](#): > > IMHO, Kate Lynn is a prettier sounding name than Kathleen or Colleen Just to clear something up, “Colleen” has nothing to do with the name “Caitlín”. It’s the anglicisation of _cailín_ which is the Irish word for “girl”. > [@](#): > > Someone suggested Catch-lynn as a pronounciation once “it” in some Irish dialects sounds like “itch” (roughly). But the second syllable would sound like “leen” not “lynn”. > [@](#): > > I think anglicised spellings of Irish names touch a subconscious nerve in the Irish psyche that developed as a result of forced anglicisation of many place names and other words That’s an interesting hypothesis and you may be right. Of course, you have to keep in mind that Irish is just as guilty of this as English is. That quintessential Irish name “Seán” is, after all, a Gaelicisation of the Anglo-Norman “Jean”! ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/53 "2004-06-23T15:32:31Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > That’s an interesting hypothesis and you may be right. Of course, you have to keep in mind that Irish is just as guilty of this as English is. That quintessential Irish name “Seán” is, after all, a Gaelicisation of the Anglo-Norman “Jean”! indeed, and it spawned Shawn, Shaun and possibly the worst corruption I’ve ever seen, Shaughn. Medbh is the original spelling, is it not? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/54 "2004-06-23T15:46:29Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > **Ponster** : vegetarian. > **Curly** : IPA. He only drinks India Pale Ale? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![YoudNeverGuess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a587f6/32.png) [@YoudNeverGuess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoudNeverGuess)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/55 "2004-06-23T16:05:29Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > Medbh is the original spelling, is it not? I _knew_ there was another version I was forgetting. Though to be pronounced ‘Maeve’ might it perhaps need a fada on the e? I dunno - I’m no expert. Don’t know which is the original spelling of this name of the three versions mentioned, but we’re going way back into the mists of time here… I suppose one could use that argument about anglicised spellings too but then again English and Irish are different languages whereas modern Irish spellings of old Irish names are evolved versions of the same word in the same language. There are probably examples of this in other languages too but I’m going off on a tangent and I’m starting to doubt my logic/ analytical skills 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/56 "2004-06-24T11:49:14Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > “it” in some Irish dialects sounds like “itch” (roughly). But the second syllable would sound like “leen” not “lynn”. Sorry, that’s just my poor phonetics :rolleyes: I was trying to get the “leen” or “leein” sound at the end. Heh, its tricky to get what I mean across, but I think they pronounce it the way you suggested 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/57 "2004-06-24T11:52:19Z")
But while you’re about ruadh, how should I pronounce “Baile Átha Cliath”?? IIRC its Dublin isn’t it? How did it change from BAC to Dublin?? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/58 "2004-06-24T13:22:16Z")
Ball-ya Aw-Ha Clee-a BAC means The town of the fort of Hurdles. Dublin comes from Dubh Linn, or Black Pool, so called by the early settlers of dublin because of the murky swamp formed where the river Dodder met the Liffey. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/59 "2004-06-24T15:02:54Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > Ball-ya Aw-Ha Clee-a > > BAC means The town of the fort of Hurdles. Dublin comes from Dubh Linn, or Black Pool, so called by the early settlers of dublin because of the murky swamp formed where the river Dodder met the Liffey. Doh! Another Dubliner, I didn’t get the inside the Pale bit at first :o ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601/60 "2004-06-25T02:23:38Z")
All of my step-children are Irish descendants with Irish names and three of my grandchildren (siblings) have Irish names with Irish spellings. My step-daughter is another "“Shuh-VAWN” but we are Southerners and say “Shuh-VON” sometimes. Is _Colin_ the masculine version of _Caitlin_? Is it ever spelled with two _l_’s in the Irish? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-siobhan/251601.md?page=4)