# How do you pronounce "Taoiseach"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 17, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018 "2011-03-17T14:09:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/21 "2011-03-18T13:44:32Z")
Tea shop. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/22 "2011-03-18T14:21:25Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > Yes. Not quite “t”, not quite “th”. The first vowel isn’t a pure vowel either, it’s a glide. I believe it’s a dental plosive, as in Indian languages. > [@donnie\_darko](#): > > Lol Celtic phonology makes no sense to me. That might be true, but in this case I think you mean that the orthography makes no sense? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/23 "2011-03-18T16:45:05Z")
> [@A.Gwilliam](#): > > Isn’t the second \ actually a schwa? I don’t know. Not when I say it, but I’m neither a native speaker nor a resident of Ireland, and my accent is admittedly atrocious. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/24 "2011-03-18T17:59:03Z")
> [@VunderBob](#): > > Throatwarbler mangrove. Damn you! I came in here to say that! ---
**Author:** ![bryanmaguire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d07c76/32.png) [@bryanmaguire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bryanmaguire)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/25 "2011-03-18T18:23:24Z")
all the pronounciations on this page would be acceptable in ireland [http://www.forvo.com/word/taoiseach/](http://www.forvo.com/word/taoiseach/) ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/26 "2011-03-19T07:14:06Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > When reporting from the “doyle” about “feena foil”. 🙂 Can we make fun of how the RTÉ presenters say “Oireachtas”? Please? ---
**Author:** ![A.Gwilliam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/27 "2011-03-19T11:29:35Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > When reporting from the “doyle” about “feena foil”. 🙂 Perhaps I’m missing something, but aren’t those entirely reasonable approximations when speaking English? > [@ruadh](#): > > Can we make fun of how the RTÉ presenters say “Oireachtas”? Please? Let me guess: Oy-RECK-tuss? On a tangentially related note: Can the BBC **please** stop calling the Dáil the Irish “parliament”? :mad: (Yes, I know I’ve complained about that on SDMB before!) On an almost entirely unrelated note: I was amused to stumble across a Wikipedia article a couple of days ago that lists “Guard” as an Irish English word that’s of Irish Gaelic origin (as in “Garda [Síochána]”). :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/28 "2011-03-19T11:41:39Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Her name was Aoife. Pronounced “Eve.” “Eve” is spelled Aoibh. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/29 "2011-03-19T13:57:24Z")
> [@A.Gwilliam](#): > > Can the BBC **please** stop calling the Dáil the Irish “parliament”? :mad: > (Yes, I know I’ve complained about that on SDMB before!) Why? ---
**Author:** ![A.Gwilliam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/30 "2011-03-19T14:32:23Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Why? Because it’s just plumb wrong! 🙂 The **Oireachtas** is the Republic’s parliament. While the Dáil is of course of great political significance, it is only one of the two chambers of the Oireachtas; it’s broadly equivalent to the UK’s House of Commons. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/31 "2011-03-19T16:07:41Z")
Depending on the context, references to the British parliament also often mean just the House of Commons. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/32 "2011-03-20T04:01:40Z")
> [@A.Gwilliam](#): > > On an almost entirely unrelated note: > I was amused to stumble across a Wikipedia article a couple of days ago that lists “Guard” as an Irish English word that’s of Irish Gaelic origin (as in “Garda [Síochána]”). :rolleyes: I’m afraid you’ll have to explain what’s wrong with that. You object because Guard is of middle English –\>old French origin? Or that it’s illogical to think that guard came from the name for the police rather than the other way around? ::aside:: Do Irish police cars really say Garda on them instead of Police? They did in **The Daisy Chain** but there weren’t any other prominent written words in the movie, so I couldn’t figure out if other signage was in Gaelic too. I live in a part of the US where English/French signage exists, but not _just_ French ::/aside:: ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/33 "2011-03-20T04:06:42Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Depending on the context, references to the British parliament also often mean just the House of Commons. Technically, the UK Parliament is the whole shebang considered as a whole: Commons, Lords, and the Queen. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/34 "2011-03-20T04:20:38Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Do Irish police cars really say Garda on them instead of Police? They did in **The Daisy Chain** but there weren’t any other prominent written words in the movie, so I couldn’t figure out if other signage was in Gaelic too. “Irish,” not “Gaelic.” (Not all Gaelic is Irish.) Yes, the cars say “Garda.” There is plenty of bilingual signage in Ireland, and plenty of English-only. You’ll find Irish-only in small pockets in the west. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/35 "2011-03-20T07:46:20Z")
> [@A.Gwilliam](#): > > Let me guess: Oy-RECK-tuss? Not even close. It’s more like “EER-ach-thus”. It may be technically closer to the proper pronunciation in Irish, but they say it that way even when speaking English, and absolutely **nobody** pronounces it that way in English. > [@](#): > > Can the BBC **please** stop calling the Dáil the Irish “parliament”? :mad: > (Yes, I know I’ve complained about that on SDMB before!) It’s the only house of Parliament that actually does anything, so it doesn’t bother me. > [@](#): > > I was amused to stumble across a Wikipedia article a couple of days ago that lists “Guard” as an Irish English word that’s of Irish Gaelic origin (as in “Garda [Síochána]”). :rolleyes: I don’t think that’s strictly incorrect, to the extent that the Garda Síochána are referred to in English as “guards”. When people call them “guards” (and they do) they’re doing it as shorthand for “Garda(í)”. If the Irish word for “guard” was something that sounded absolutely nothing like the English word I don’t believe they’d be called “guards” in English, they’d probably just be called “police”. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/36 "2011-03-20T09:37:02Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > . . . > > The Irish are brilliant as a people but their orthographic system is… well, not as good as the Spanish or Russian options. It is an improvement on ogham, though. > > . . . I was really inpressed for a minute there. but then you had to go and be rude. > **[Gaelic type](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_type)** > > Gaelic type (sometimes called Irish character, Irish type, or Gaelic script) is a family of Insular script typefaces devised for printing Early Modern Irish. It was widely used from the 16th century until the mid-18th century in Scotland and the mid-20th century in Ireland, but is now rarely used. Sometimes, all Gaelic typefaces are called Celtic or uncial although most Gaelic types are not uncials. The "Anglo-Saxon" types of the 17th century are included in this category because both the Angl... Our system was fine. Having been forced to change to the anglo alphabet we have devised various spelling rules in order to convey the proper pronunciation. Gaeilge spelling made no sense to me at all, until I learned the old script while studying Sean Nos. Now I have very little trouble getting the spelling correct, though I’m still fairly hopeless with tense. ---
**Author:** ![A.Gwilliam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/37 "2011-03-20T11:01:33Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > Not even close. It’s more like “EER-ach-thus”. It may be technically closer to the proper pronunciation in Irish, but they say it that way even when speaking English, and absolutely **nobody** pronounces it that way in English. So how **do** people in Ireland pronounce “Oireachtas” when speaking in English? > [@](#): > > It’s the only house of Parliament that actually does anything, so it doesn’t bother me. I think a news organisation that prides itself on its journalism should be capable of making technically correct statements in its articles on political or constitutional affairs. And given the similarities between the Dáil and the House of Commons, it’s inexcusable; people in the UK already have a familiarity with a similar political model. > [@](#): > > I don’t think that’s strictly incorrect, to the extent that the Garda Síochána are referred to in English as “guards”. When people call them “guards” (and they do) they’re doing it as shorthand for “Garda(í)”. If the Irish word for “guard” was something that sounded absolutely nothing like the English word I don’t believe they’d be called “guards” in English, they’d probably just be called “police”. Given that “guards” already existed in English, it’s hardly a borrowing from Irish! And is the Irish term even of Celtic origin? Also, I’m wondering if the Irish name for the force was in fact coined from “Civic Guard”, rather than the other way around. But I may be talking rubbish! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/38 "2011-03-20T16:49:59Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I was really inpressed for a minute there. but then you had to go and be rude. > > [Gaelic type - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_type) > > Our system was fine. Having been forced to change to the anglo alphabet we have devised various spelling rules in order to convey the proper pronunciation. > > Gaeilge spelling made no sense to me at all, until I learned the old script while studying Sean Nos. Now I have very little trouble getting the spelling correct, though I’m still fairly hopeless with tense. I did not mean to be rude, and I hope you don’t take it as further rudeness when I challenge what you say here. The Gaelic alphabet and the Roman alphabet are the same as used for Irish. The only difference between the two is for a set of nine consonants. Roman: bh ch dh fh gh mh ph sh th Gaelic: ḃ c· ḋ ḟ g· ṁ ṗ ṡ ṫ [in case these appear as little squares or question marks, it’s bcdfgmpst with a little dot over each, as with i & j. Also, I can’t type the C or G properly here, so imagine the dot is above.] Using a diacritic (called the _punctum delens_) rather than an H seems like a superior system to me, especially in a language where the word “cat” can become “chat” in certain grammatical environments. But that would still leave you with: _taoiseac·_ and _oireac·tas_ So the Gaelic type does not solve the problem of indicating consonant quality. It also does not improve on the nasal mutation (eclipsis), where when P changes to B it is written BP. Finally, you have stated a fact that is incorrect: you weren’t “forced to change.” As the wiki article you give says, the change happened after Irish independence, and a few books are still published in Gaelic type. Who would have done the forcing? I like Gaelic type too, but your argument is sort of like saying German is written better with Fraktur. In both cases the native system was largely abandoned in order to integrate with the other writing systems of Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/39 "2011-03-20T17:56:05Z")
ċġ I pressed the letter and then followed it with Unicode character U+0307, “Combining dot above”. Doesn’t work on all letters for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018/40 "2011-03-20T18:37:51Z")
**Sunspace** : awesome, thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-taoiseach/575018.md?page=3)