# How do YOU pronounce "Van Gogh"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 27, 2011, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419 "2011-05-27T10:18:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/41 "2011-05-29T14:16:44Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think most Americans would be surprised to learn that there is a different pronunciation of Van Gogh in Britain. I think this is true. At first it would be “Dude - who?!” and then, because it sounds like a funny, throat-clearing pronunciation, there would be some awkward silliness “really?! Van Ghochhhhh?! No way!?!?” with an attempt to make the other person seem foolish. But, over time, a bit of “hmmm, maybe I am the clueless, Yank-o-centric boob here” creeps in, followed by trying out that more Euro/cosmopolitan pronunciation in a variety of settings, followed by teasing by their U.S. friends, followed by simply getting okay with the fact that we pronounce it one way here but folks do it differently in other countries, so quit trying to be what you’re not and enjoy the variety. Not that I have any experience with that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/42 "2011-05-29T14:39:04Z")
To bs more precise, trying to pronounce it in the authentically Dutch manner would strike one as pretentious. “Van Goff” would sound at first like a joke. The first time I heard it, I thought my leg was being pulled. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/43 "2011-05-29T14:42:29Z")
To be sure, there’s no /ff/ sound in there, so Goff does not really approximate the real pronunciation. As was indicated above the correct Dutch pronunciation has both /g/ and /gh/ as a guttural, and a short /o/ sound (to rhyme with something between hut and hot) so that’s what I say when I speak Dutch, but when speaking English I would not do that, and just go with Ven Go. Makes things a lot easier I find. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/44 "2011-05-29T14:57:32Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I think this is true. At first it would be “Dude - who?!” and then, because it sounds like a funny, throat-clearing pronunciation, there would be some awkward silliness “really?! Van Ghochhhhh?! No way!?!?” with an attempt to make the other person seem foolish. I guess I’ll just have to make sure to avoid the name entirely next time in the US, then, because there’s no way I’ll remember to change by pronounciation to fit in. Luckily, it’s not something that comes up in conversation very regularly. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/45 "2011-05-30T04:00:07Z")
I have never heard it said any other way than “Van Go”. ---
**Author:** ![kombatminipig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5ac83/32.png) [@kombatminipig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kombatminipig)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/46 "2011-05-30T09:09:39Z")
I can understand the fact that the name has been anglicized (as with many other words containing guttural sounds) to alleviate pronunciation for most English speakers, but why is it seen pretentious to attempt to pronunce somebody’s name correctly? Would a Dutchman be treated that way in the states? What about a Ukrainian pronouncing the word ‘borscht’ without the ‘T’, or a Lebanese asking for hummus with a guttural ‘H’? Do you get a pass for pronouncing a name correctly when it originates from your native language? ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/47 "2011-05-30T09:54:41Z")
> [@kombatminipig](#): > > I can understand the fact that the name has been anglicized (as with many other words containing guttural sounds) to alleviate pronunciation for most English speakers, but why is it seen pretentious to attempt to pronunce somebody’s name correctly? Would a Dutchman be treated that way in the states? > > What about a Ukrainian pronouncing the word ‘borscht’ without the ‘T’, or a Lebanese asking for hummus with a guttural ‘H’? Do you get a pass for pronouncing a name correctly when it originates from your native language? From my point of view it is because it creates an unnatural break in the flow in speech. I’ve had to deal with it since learning a second language (Swedish), which I work in these days. If I refer to London in Swedish I don’t adjust my pronunciation to a flatter English-style and say “Luhn-Duhn”, I go with the flow of the sentence and pronounce it like a Swede, “Lon-Don”. Similarly, despite knowing that the place is called Göteborg and being able to pronounce it, I still say “Gothenburg” if speaking English, because saying something like “I was in Göteborg last weekend” seems a bit precious, a bit “ooh, look at me, I know the correct name”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/48 "2011-05-30T10:32:17Z")
> [@grimpixie](#): > > I pronounce it “Van Goch” with the ch rolled like the scottish “loch” - but that’s my inner Afrikaaner coming through… > [@ctnguy](#): > > Ditto. And ditto. \*Almost \*thirded, I use[the same sound](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_velar_fricative) for the start and finish : faŋˈxɔx Fun gh-o-gh That first bit is as important as the guttural G, BTW. It’s pronounced “Fun” like the House, not “Van” like the vehicle. “Van” + xɔx sounds even more wrong to me than “Fun” + go does. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/49 "2011-05-30T10:45:57Z")
It actually comes out of my mouth as Ven xox, (the hard h sound in loch) very close to the Dutch way, but I’d change it to Van Gox so that people around me would understand who I meant. ---
**Author:** ![kombatminipig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5ac83/32.png) [@kombatminipig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kombatminipig)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/50 "2011-05-30T13:11:07Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > From my point of view it is because it creates an unnatural break in the flow in speech. I’ve had to deal with it since learning a second language (Swedish), which I work in these days. If I refer to London in Swedish I don’t adjust my pronunciation to a flatter English-style and say “Luhn-Duhn”, I go with the flow of the sentence and pronounce it like a Swede, “Lon-Don”. Similarly, despite knowing that the place is called Göteborg and being able to pronounce it, I still say “Gothenburg” if speaking English, because saying something like “I was in Göteborg last weekend” seems a bit precious, a bit “ooh, look at me, I know the correct name”. I don’t think the comparison is apt though, because you’re comparing a local and a foreign name for a place (compare with Nihon/Japan). Both Gothenburg and Göteborg are proper names for the city in question, depending on the language being used. Likewise, when talking about the Swedish currency in English I (as a Swede) will call them ‘crowns’ instead of ‘kronor’, because using the plural conjugation ‘-or’ just doesn’t make sense in English. van Gogh on the other hand was a person, and certainly would himself corrected anybody mispronouncing his name (as most of us do). ‘van Goff’ was simply not the man’s name. Disclaimer: Until this thread I pronounced it ‘van Goch’, I now consider myself all the wiser. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/51 "2011-05-30T13:29:45Z")
> [@kombatminipig](#): > > van Gogh on the other hand was a person, and certainly would himself corrected anybody mispronouncing his name (as most of us do). And you know this how? The conceit that there is only one way to pronounce a person’s name is fairly recent. In the past, those whose lives and work took them across borders thought nothing of different people of different background not only using varying pronunciations, but entirely different forms as well. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/52 "2011-05-30T13:30:54Z")
“Throat Warbler Mangrove.” ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/53 "2011-05-30T13:36:18Z")
> [@kombatminipig](#): > > I don’t think the comparison is apt though, because you’re comparing a local and a foreign name for a place (compare with Nihon/Japan). Both Gothenburg and Göteborg are proper names for the city in question, depending on the language being used. Likewise, when talking about the Swedish currency in English I (as a Swede) will call them ‘crowns’ instead of ‘kronor’, because using the plural conjugation ‘-or’ just doesn’t make sense in English. That’s why I included my own (I am British) adoption of the Swedish pronunciation of “London” when I am speaking Swedish. Instead of insisting on a British pronunciation I go with the Swedish pronunciation despite being British myself, the reason being that using the “foreign” pronunciation is too jarring and ruins the flow of a sentence. > [@kombatminipig](#): > > van Gogh on the other hand was a person, and certainly would himself corrected anybody mispronouncing his name (as most of us do). ‘van Goff’ was simply not the man’s name. People mispronounce my name on a daily basis. Swedish is a fully Germanic language, so the Swedish pronunciation of Mark uses a short ‘a’ due to the two consonants after it. However, the British pronunciation is with a long ‘a’. I don’t think I have ever corrected anyone on the pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/54 "2011-05-30T13:43:04Z")
> [@kombatminipig](#): > > , but why is it seen pretentious to attempt to pronunce somebody’s name correctly? Would a Dutchman be treated that way in the states? It would be pretentious for a native English speaker who is speaking English in a native English accent to use a Dutch pronunciation fir a word that has a common pronunciation in English. It’s like changing your accent for one word, like the ridiculous way Oprah Winfrey insisted on pronouncing “Melbourne” in a pseudo-Australian accent but keeping her own accent for everything else. Additionally, as Amanset says, it causes a notable break in the flow of speech. Either you’re readjusting your mouth to change all the phonemes for one word, or, more likely, you are falling into a never-never land of pronunciation, whichIs correct neither in English nor in Dutch. > [@](#): > > What about a Ukrainian pronouncing the word ‘borscht’ without the ‘T’, or a Lebanese asking for hummus with a guttural ‘H’? Do you get a pass for pronouncing a name correctly when it originates from your native language? Take out the word “correctly” and you’ve got it. If you are Ukranian and you speak English with a Ukranian accent, then all your native pronunciations are valid. ---
**Author:** ![kombatminipig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5ac83/32.png) [@kombatminipig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kombatminipig)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/55 "2011-05-30T15:23:44Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And you know this how? The conceit that there is only one way to pronounce a person’s name is fairly recent. In the past, those whose lives and work took them across borders thought nothing of different people of different background not only using varying pronunciations, but entirely different forms as well. How Recent? Van Gogh died barely more than a century ago, hardly enough time (IMHO) for his name to become a word disassociated with his person. > [@amanset](#): > > That’s why I included my own (I am British) adoption of the Swedish pronunciation of “London” when I am speaking Swedish. Instead of insisting on a British pronunciation I go with the Swedish pronunciation despite being British myself, the reason being that using the “foreign” pronunciation is too jarring and ruins the flow of a sentence. > > People mispronounce my name on a daily basis. Swedish is a fully Germanic language, so the Swedish pronunciation of Mark uses a short ‘a’ due to the two consonants after it. However, the British pronunciation is with a long ‘a’. I don’t think I have ever corrected anyone on the pronunciation. And here, I believe, is where our difference lies. Your first name has a local equivalent, and leads to little ambiguity. If you have a common Nordic surname (like Anderson) I’m sure you’d put up with the Swedish pronunciation of it, and possibly the localized spelling as well (with a double ‘S’). On the other hand, with a purely Anglo-Saxon surname such as ‘Black’, I think you’d prefer to keep the English pronunciation, as it would become a very different name in Swedish. > [@Acsenray](#): > > It would be pretentious for a native English speaker who is speaking English in a native English accent to use a Dutch pronunciation fir a word that has a common pronunciation in English. It’s like changing your accent for one word, like the ridiculous way Oprah Winfrey insisted on pronouncing “Melbourne” in a pseudo-Australian accent but keeping her own accent for everything else. > > Additionally, as Amanset says, it causes a notable break in the flow of speech. Either you’re readjusting your mouth to change all the phonemes for one word, or, more likely, you are falling into a never-never land of pronunciation, whichIs correct neither in English nor in Dutch. But as this thread clearly shows, there is no common English pronunciation of his name. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/56 "2011-05-30T15:31:46Z")
> [@kombatminipig](#): > > I don’t think the comparison is apt though, because you’re comparing a local and a foreign name for a place (compare with Nihon/Japan). Both Gothenburg and Göteborg are proper names for the city in question, depending on the language being used. My view on that is If the place has a proper name in English (the only place in Sweden that has by the way), why on Earth do some people use the Swedish name when speaking English? > [@kombatminipig](#): > > Likewise, when talking about the Swedish currency in English I (as a Swede) will call them ‘crowns’ instead of ‘kronor’, because using the plural conjugation ‘-or’ just doesn’t make sense in English. That is just as silly as if we would, for some reason, say _pound_ instead of _pund_, especially when people write _kroner_ instead of _kronor_. **ETA** If I hadn’t read this thread and heard a Brit or an American pronounce van Gogh (which I think I have never had) I would probably have no idea what person they were talking about as the Swedish pronunciation is _Gog_. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/57 "2011-05-30T15:31:52Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > People mispronounce my name on a daily basis. Swedish is a fully Germanic language, so the Swedish pronunciation of Mark uses a short ‘a’ due to the two consonants after it. However, the British pronunciation is with a long ‘a’. I don’t think I have ever corrected anyone on the pronunciation. My full name is Samantha; lots of people in other countries can’t pronounce the ‘th’ and I don’t correct them. They also often prefer to call me Samantha because Sam to them is indisputably a man’s name. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/58 "2011-05-30T15:32:06Z")
> [@kombatminipig](#): > > But as this thread clearly shows, there is no common English pronunciation of his name. What in the world are you talking about? The common pronunciation in American English is attested to by the overwhelming majority of the respondents in this poll. The discussion has also established a common pronunciation in British English. There also seems to be some minority presence of other options, but the common Wnglish pronunciations are pretty clear. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/59 "2011-05-30T15:44:25Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What in the world are you talking about? > > The common pronunciation in American English is attested to by the overwhelming majority of the respondents in this poll. > > The discussion has also established a common pronunciation in British English. > > There also seems to be some minority presence of other options, but the common Wnglish pronunciations are pretty clear. Two common British pronunciations, not one - Van Goff and Van Gox/Goch (lots of people in the thread have mentioned the latter pronunciation). So that’s three. I’d say it’s fair to say there’s no consensus on the ‘right’ pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419/60 "2011-05-30T16:50:05Z")
I am an American, so it’s Van Go. I figured I wasn’t pronouncing it way Vincent himself said it, but I was under the wrong impression that the English speaking world was united. I wasn’t disabused of this notion until I heard Richard Thompson’s song, “Outside of the Inside,” where he pronounces it Van Goff. Now I learn there are more English ways and none are really that close to the original. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-pronounce-van-gogh/583419.md?page=4)