# How DO You prosecute a 31 year Old case? (R. Polanski) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 28, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846 "2009-09-28T14:06:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/41 "2009-09-29T04:01:21Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > That true? What I heard on NPR today was that this is a bit of a “he said she said.” She says it was not only non-consensual but positively physically forced, he says it was completely consensual. I hadn’t heard that. I’ve read various statements from him, and hearsay reported by others where he acknowledges that what he did was deplorable. I guess he claims it wasn’ t rape by his definition. I don’t recall him ever contesting the 'lude and the booze. ---
**Author:** ![Race\_Harley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Race\_Harley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Race_Harley)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/42 "2009-09-29T04:25:15Z")
> [@Cesario](#): > > If you want people to remember this, stop refering to her age. **Stop mentioning that she was a minor, and stop mentioning she was 13**. Just call it rape and leave it at that. > > You don’t increase the horror by mentioning her age. You diminish it. The existence of the age of consent and the crime of “statutory rape” dilutes the entire concept of rape. When you call something rape that is “everyone was just fine with it until the government came in and decided one of the parties wasn’t allowed to say ‘yes’,” the term rape loses its meaning. > > If the girl was saying “no”, and this fact was agreed on by all parties involved, this is rape. Period. Dragging the age of consent into this is only going to serve to diminish the crime and the percieved culpability of the perpetrator. > > **No one should be punished for having consensual sex** , and the entire purpose of statutory rape law is to criminalize consensual sex. By prosecuting him under that law, they’ve guaranteed that people are going to treat this as a perfectly consensual sex act instead of as a rape. > > This is yet another reason we shouldn’t have an age of consent. When a “yes” is legally identical to a “no”, there’s no incentive to listen to a “no”. I’m good with everything else except the two bold lines above. Mentioning her age underlines the significance of his crime. As for the second bold… maybe you’d want to rephrase that. ---
**Author:** ![Cesario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Cesario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cesario)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/43 "2009-09-29T05:17:05Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This is nothing but a hijack to push your own agenda, again. > > The topic is in regards to the possibility of prosecuting ancient crimes. If you want to make claims about all “consensual” sex being fine on all occasions, open a new thread. > > **Everyone** : discussions of whether statutory rape is a legitimate crime do not belong in this thread. > [/Moderating] No need for a new thread (especially since you’ve already declared you’re annoyed by the presence of the ones we’ve got). It was a minor asside meant only to demonstrate why the association of this crime with statutory rape (instead of the quite conventional rape it actually was) is making people less inclined to think ill of the man, not more inclined to think ill of him. As to the “prosecution of ancient crimes” people have already explained quite effectively that there is no need to prosecute the crime. We’ve finished the prosecution phase and moved on to the punishment phase by the time he fled the country. The only crime he still needs prosecuting for is fleeing from justice (though when you are in a position of having a plea deal renigged on, one would hardly consider that consistent with most conventional ideas of justice). > [@Race\_Harley](#): > > I’m good with everything else except the two bold lines above. > > Mentioning her age underlines the significance of his crime. > > As for the second bold… maybe you’d want to rephrase that. As I said, mentioning her age undermines the significance of his crime, since when people see the age, they assume it was a statutory rape instead of the violent rape it apparently was. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/44 "2009-09-29T05:55:30Z")
> [@Cesario](#): > > As I said, mentioning her age undermines the significance of his crime, since when people see the age, they assume it was a statutory rape instead of the violent rape it apparently was. Her age is entirely relevant, since children are less capable of fending off an attacker, both physically and psychologically. Same goes for elderly people. ---
**Author:** ![Cesario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Cesario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cesario)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/45 "2009-09-29T06:01:36Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Her age is entirely relevant, since children are less capable of fending off an attacker, both physically and psychologically. Same goes for elderly people. Her ability to fend off an attacker is utterly and completely irrelevent, since she **was unable to fend off this attacker**. Claiming that her ability to fend off an attacker is relevent is one step away from blaming the victim for not doing more to fight off a rapist. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/46 "2009-09-29T12:46:54Z")
> [@Cesario](#): > > Her ability to fend off an attacker is utterly and completely irrelevent, since she **was unable to fend off this attacker**. > > Claiming that her ability to fend off an attacker is relevent is one step away from blaming the victim for not doing more to fight off a rapist. You’re still missing the point. I have a feeling that you’re one of those people that thinks it’s perfectly fine to fuck a “willing” 5 year old, and that is the subtext of your post. Putting that aside, the legal reality is quite different in the United States. There’s no such thing as “consensual” murder, you can’t say “murder me” and then absolve the murderer of criminal guilt. So why is it that people who murder children tend to become more widely condemned and usually face stiffer penalties? It is because the public has a greater outcry over someone killing the weakest members of society. In the U.S. since there is almost always a great deal of discretion in sentencing the demographics of the _victim_ is always relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/47 "2009-09-29T14:49:48Z")
[Pit thread for **Cesario**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11609428#post11609428) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/48 "2009-09-29T17:44:43Z")
**TWEEEEET!!!** The topic of this thread is issue of the problems with the prosecution of old crimes, not the lines to be drawn for criminal sexuality. Everyone knock it off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/49 "2009-09-29T20:11:51Z")
[Slate.com](http://Slate.com) had a nice article about this today [http://www.slate.com/id/2229853/](http://www.slate.com/id/2229853/) Since the victim has repeated said she wanted this to go away, does it seem likely to anyone that she would refuse to help with the prosecution and Polanski would somehow escape his sentence? I get that the trial is over with and there would be no need for a retrial and all Polanski did was escape during the sentencing period. Would the prosecution even need the victim at all? By the way, how did her name and picture get out everywhere? I understand that it’s an old case, but I thought rape victims usually were completely protected with anonymity. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/50 "2009-09-29T20:22:25Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Since the victim has repeated said she wanted this to go away, does it seem likely to anyone that she would refuse to help with the prosecution and Polanski would somehow escape his sentence? I don’t see how that’s an issue unless he wins a new trial. He’s already been prosecuted. > [@](#): > > By the way, how did her name and picture get out everywhere? I think she came forward publicly at some point because she felt he’d been treated unfairly. ---
**Author:** ![bri1600bv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@bri1600bv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bri1600bv)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/51 "2009-09-29T20:23:22Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > [Slate.com](http://Slate.com) had a nice article about this today > > [http://www.slate.com/id/2229853/](http://www.slate.com/id/2229853/) > > Since the victim has repeated said she wanted this to go away, does it seem likely to anyone that she would refuse to help with the prosecution and Polanski would somehow escape his sentence? I get that the trial is over with and there would be no need for a retrial and all Polanski did was escape during the sentencing period. Would the prosecution even need the victim at all? > > By the way, how did her name and picture get out everywhere? I understand that it’s an old case, but I thought rape victims usually were completely protected with anonymity. No need for her at all in sentencing. She mentioned her name at some point, not sure why. She wants it to go away, but it isn’t her call. ---
**Author:** ![bri1600bv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@bri1600bv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bri1600bv)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/52 "2009-09-29T20:24:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t see how that’s an issue unless he wins a new trial. He’s already been prosecuted. > I think she came forward publicly at some point because she felt he’d been treated unfairly. Are you sure she thought he had been treated unfairly? 40 days in jail for anally raping a 13 year old after drugging her? Then on to a life of luxury and cultural acclaim? What’s the unfair part about it? ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/53 "2009-09-29T20:52:27Z")
I posted this in the Pit thread, but this may be a better venue: > [@me](#): > > A quick question: If the judge reverts the sentence to the original deal and gives him time served and probation, where does that leave Polanski? Would the probation start now? If not, would he have violated it retroactively by fleeing and not reporting into to the correction system as required of probationers? ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/54 "2009-09-29T21:05:54Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > A quick question: If the judge reverts the sentence to the original deal and gives him time served and probation, where does that leave Polanski? Would the probation start now? If not, would he have violated it retroactively by fleeing and not reporting into to the correction system as required of probationers? His probation would begin on the future sentencing date. Since he was never formally sentenced, he was never given probation, so he can’t violate what hasn’t been mandated yet. Any other charges WRT fleeing from justice would be separate from the original criminal charge. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/55 "2009-09-29T23:52:53Z")
Polanski should be punished with the most severest punishment possible. Preferably life in prison and chemical treatment or possibly forced labour camp in Alaska were that an option. ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/56 "2009-09-29T23:56:44Z")
How much time could he get for the actual rape (a 13 year old child for goodness sakes!), and for also fleeing? I suppose a new trial would have to be held for the fleeing part. Would that be contempt of court? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/57 "2009-09-30T22:44:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t see how that’s an issue unless he wins a new trial. He’s already been prosecuted. In some jurisdictions, a Victim Impact Statement is made or provided to the judge prior to the judge deciding on the sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/58 "2009-09-30T22:46:23Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Polanski should be punished with the most severest punishment possible. Preferably life in prison and chemical treatment or possibly forced labour camp in Alaska were that an option. Palin is too old for him. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/59 "2009-09-30T22:55:45Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > In some jurisdictions, a Victim Impact Statement is made or provided to the judge prior to the judge deciding on the sentence. That’s one factor in consideration of the sentence. Assuming she’s in one of those jurisdictions (she probably is) and doesn’t make one, the verdict wouldn’t just get thrown out. If she won’t make a statement, I don’t think it would make a big difference. Most of her original grand jury testimony is already on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846/60 "2009-09-30T22:56:25Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Palin is too old for him. I think there is a Palin girl (or two?) that are in his favored age range… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prosecute-a-31-year-old-case-r-polanski/511846.md?page=4)