# How do you prove you are you? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 19, 2013, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112 "2013-04-19T07:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FuzzyOgre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@FuzzyOgre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuzzyOgre)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/21 "2013-04-19T18:56:43Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > My home state, Wisconsin [gives its requirements here](http://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/vitalrecords/birth.htm), and neither photo ID nor being there in person is required. Non-photo ID options (two required) include a checkbook/bankbook (old-school, admittedly), major credit card, health insurance card, recent signed and dated lease, utility bill or traffic ticket. Right. Unfortunately to get most of those things in Canada you need identification. He was not a Canadian citizen, and did not fall under the aegis of our universal health care system. He always had a girlfriend however, and hopefully he eventually got married. That would have sorted some trouble for him. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/22 "2013-04-19T20:00:40Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > You’re making a fatal mistake–you’re assuming that the government operates according to the rules of common sense. Government may not operate by rules of common sense, but it does operate according to rules. And “I moved to another country as a kid and no one has a copy of my birth certificate” is not exactly a unique scenario. There’s surely some arcane bureaucratic procedure available to solve the problem. It might not be a solution that the front-line folks answering the phone know about, and you might even need to hire an attorney or other expert to assist in finding and completing the right procedure. But there is a procedure, of that I feel confident. ---
**Author:** ![CatherineZeta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@CatherineZeta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatherineZeta)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/23 "2013-04-19T22:13:59Z")
I’m surprised that one would have to show ID to get a birth certificate. That makes sense, but when I needed my birth certificate from the state of Maine all I did was fill out a form online and they mailed it to me. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/24 "2013-04-19T23:48:55Z")
By the way, **FlaChef**? Welcome to The Straight Dope! Sorry it took so long. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Accident](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Mr.Accident](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Accident)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/25 "2013-04-20T00:19:29Z")
I went through this a couple of years back. Have your friend go to the social security office. Tell them he lost all of his personal ID papers such as photo ID, BC, etc, and explain that he needs a new SS card. As long as he can answer some basic questions about himself (birth date, mother’s full name including maiden name, father’s full name, their birth dates, etc), they will give him a piece of paper that contains his SS# and a few other details. Your friend can then take this piece of paper, bank statement, utility bill, etc (check dmv website for accept documents) to the dmv, explain to them what happened, and they will issue him with a new ID. Once your friend receives his permanent ID, he can take this back to the SS office, and they will then mail your friend his SS card. Not once did I need my birth certificate. ---
**Author:** ![eightysix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@eightysix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eightysix)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/26 "2013-04-20T00:59:36Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > Are there any central clearinghouses for this stuff? > > I have vague memories of giving my fingerprints when I was in school and the class went on a field trip to a local police station. Would they have saved those? I’m not even sure which town it was. Similarly, I’ve had lots of x-rays now and then, but would they check all the local hospitals? Dental records – how would anyone know which dentist I use? For fingerprints the central clearinghouse, to the extent there is one, is AFIS, as linked to wikipedia in my response above. It is run by the FBI and they put all their prints in it. Other agencies submit voluntarily. I don’t know what the participation rate is but I’ve always assumed it was pretty high. My guess is that it’d be a long shot for you field trip prints to be there, but you never know. As far as medical/dental xrays - no such banana. The HIPAA-ites would blow a gasket at the very thought. To use those recs first you need to have a lead on who an unidentified might be, and go from there. If you have subpoena power in the jurisdiction where the records are, as many ME/coroner offices have in their own jurisdictions, you can get the records that way. Otherwise you need a court order or a cooperative records clerk. A bit of a hijack and I apologize, but the OP did say he was interested on “multiple levels”. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/27 "2013-04-20T01:52:00Z")
When I read the title of this thread for some reason my mind went instantly to the idea of a “Kill us both Spock,” type scenario. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/28 "2013-04-20T02:32:48Z")
Anyone can order a birth certificate, surely? As long as you know the details on it, including place of birth. It doesn’t even have to be yours or a relative’s. You pay the fee and get the document. I just checked it for a couple of US states, and clicked on the rules for the canal zone; you have to provide ID when making the request, but the ID does not have to be the same as the name on the birth certificate. People order other people’s birth certificates sometimes when doing genealogy, investigating something or just being curious. Obama’s certificate of live birth was purchased by hundreds of people. The military overseas will hardly have ignored the birth of a child. Either your friend hasn’t looked very hard or there’s something about his story that you don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/29 "2013-04-20T02:44:22Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I had no trouble getting a birth certificate from PA by mail. I didn’t have to get anything notarized. In fact, they offered to change the name that was on the original certificate to the name I currently use. That could save my a lot of trouble. > > In fact, I have often noted that there is no unbreakable chain between birth certificates and identity. That is why this insistence on government issued photo ID is absurd. I am intrigued by the “offered to change the name” part. Here in Texas, I need to change a minor but vexing error in my son’s name on his birth certificate. The Bureau of Vital Statistics said I needed a court order. I have to file a case with my local district court (at a cost of $212!), then get to explain my case to a judge, he signs it, then I’m back off to Vital Statistics. How did you get off so easily? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/30 "2013-04-20T02:49:21Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > If I really needed to prove who I am, my name is on my dentures. Those could be anyone’s dentures! ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/31 "2013-04-20T03:08:09Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > So… he’s been living in a guard shack on the border this whole time? Good thing he didn’t try it. This could damn well happen. Read about Mehran Karimi Nasseri who got trapped at the airport in France for 18 years. (Then he got sick and was sent to the hospital; after that, he has been in a homeless shelter ever since.) [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehran_Karimi_Nasseri) [Snopes article](http://www.snopes.com/travel/airline/airport.asp) ---
**Author:** ![FuzzyOgre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@FuzzyOgre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuzzyOgre)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/32 "2013-04-20T05:27:26Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Government may not operate by rules of common sense, but it does operate according to rules. And “I moved to another country as a kid and no one has a copy of my birth certificate” is not exactly a unique scenario. There’s surely some arcane bureaucratic procedure available to solve the problem. It might not be a solution that the front-line folks answering the phone know about, and you might even need to hire an attorney or other expert to assist in finding and completing the right procedure. But there is a procedure, of that I feel confident. Right. The problem is there is always operating procedures that differ between the federal and state levels, correct? My understanding is that currently for US citizens to return home from locations abroad, they must provide ID or otherwise establish their identity. So that would be a federal level regulation euphemism-blocking state level identity retrieval. Probably a prime example of two parties saying “Ain’t my problem.” There surely exists many solutions for the typical person, but as I said, he (had) no credit history, no employment record, no remaining relatives in the states. There might be someone that knew him as a kid, like a teacher or a pastor, but the best they could do is say “Yeah, he kinda looks like a grown up version of a kid I knew 15 years ago.” Real problems result when people fall out of society. You might be participating socially, but legally you can be a zero. Things like attorneys are for members of society that can feed and shelter themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/33 "2013-04-20T07:32:36Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > I had a friend who couldn’t get a driver’s license without a birth certificate. But the courthouse wouldn’t give him a birth certificate without ID. It was a real _Kafkaesque catch-22 situation_… Italics added. :eek: With an overlay of the absurdity of Enesco suggesting a Beckett-like loss of existential bearing. ---
**Author:** ![Dereknocue67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6de8d8/32.png) [@Dereknocue67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dereknocue67)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/34 "2013-04-20T08:41:06Z")
Whenever I want to prove who I am I simply look in the mirror. If I recognize myself, I know it’s me (or maybe my evil twin). ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/35 "2013-04-20T09:27:09Z")
I have never had to put this to the test, but I have read that if I lose my passport and simply do not have any other form of ID, then I would need to have two other Americans swear to the US Embassy that to the best of their knowledge, I am a bona-fide American before a new passport can be issued to me. Or maybe it’s a temporary passport until I can go somewhere to fetch my other papers. Something like that. Has anyone else heard this? I did at one point have to be fingerprinted as part of the process of obtaining a security clearance. Those prints must be on file somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/36 "2013-04-20T09:47:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t understand why he couldn’t obtain a birth certificate by mail like everyone else who has ever moved to a different country does. If he was born in New York, he would [need ID and possibly a valid passport](http://www.health.ny.gov/vital_records/birth.htm) in order to have his birth certificate mailed. > [@SciFiSam](#): > > Anyone can order a birth certificate, surely? [Not necessarily:](http://www.health.ny.gov/vital_records/birth.htm) [quote] Who is eligible to obtain a birth certificate copy? [ul] [li]The person named on the birth certificate.[/li][li]A parent of the person named on the birth certificate (requesting parent’s name must be on birth certificate).[/li][li]Only by order of a New York State Court may a spouse, child or other persons obtain a copy of a birth certificate.[/ul][/li][/quote] ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/37 "2013-04-20T09:56:26Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Obama’s certificate of live birth was purchased by hundreds of people. If that was ever possible, [it isn’t now.](http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html) ---
**Author:** ![esmeralda2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@esmeralda2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esmeralda2)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/38 "2013-04-20T10:27:10Z")
Everyone should have a passport and lock it away in a safe deposit box when you are not using it, and update it when it is going to expire. If you’ve got a birth certificate, that too should be locked up in a safe deposit box. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/39 "2013-04-21T01:09:09Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > I am intrigued by the “offered to change the name” part. Here in Texas, I need to change a minor but vexing error in my son’s name on his birth certificate. The Bureau of Vital Statistics said I needed a court order. I have to file a case with my local district court (at a cost of $212!), then get to explain my case to a judge, he signs it, then I’m back off to Vital Statistics. How did you get off so easily? I was astonished too. It was when I retired on the last day of the millennium (1999 and I am not getting into an argument over that–my personal calendar begins with a year 0). My employer was converting my retirement account into an annuity and wanted to see my birth certificate. I figured that informal name changes were common enough so I could explain why the name on my BC was different from the name I used all my life. Literally, my father made the change when he was unemployed in 1937 (perfectly legal if not done for fraudulent purposes) in order to conceal a Jewish name. So, save for the birth certificate itself, I had never used the birth name for any purpose. In particular for school, for an SS card, for immigration to Canada, etc., etc. My first passport required that two people sign a notarized statement that they knew me under both names. I don’t what would have happened had my parents not been alive, since there was literally no one else who knew me under both names. Subsequent passports were issued no questions asked. Anyway I wrote to Harrisburg, gave my birth name, place (the hospital, since I assumed that was on the record somewhere), parents’ names and assumed they would send me a certificate in my birth name. Instead, someone wrote back and said that since the name on my BC was not the name I was currently using, if I could send them photocopies of documents showing that I had used this name for at least ten years, they would issue a BC in the name I used. So I photocopied my college and grad school diplomas along with a couple expired and one current passport and the new BC was issued. It has occurred to me that with all the heightened security these days, that might not happen today. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112/40 "2013-04-21T01:18:50Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > If he was born in New York, he would [need ID and possibly a valid passport](http://www.health.ny.gov/vital_records/birth.htm) in order to have his birth certificate mailed. > > [Not necessarily:](http://www.health.ny.gov/vital_records/birth.htm) This is an odd document: > [@](#): > > The New York State Department of Health does not file and cannot issue copies of New York City birth certificates. For births in one of the five (5) boroughs of New York City (Manhattan, Kings, Queens, the Bronx, and Staten Island), please visit the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene web site. Please note that the borough of Kings is sometimes referred to as Brooklyn and the borough of Staten Island is sometimes referred to as Richmond. NYC has five **Boroughs** : Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, The Bronx, and Staten Island and five corresponding **Counties** : Manhattan, Kings, Queens, The Bronx, and Richmond. This makes me wonder if it is an official document at all. Although officials might be dim (and many are), they are punctilious about getting such details right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-prove-you-are-you/656112.md?page=3)