# How do you rate Bob Dylan's songwriting? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 30, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030 "2013-09-30T20:02:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/1 "2013-09-30T20:02:04Z")
An offshot of [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16710511#post16710511) > [@Who is the world's best-known living author? The best regarded?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-worlds-best-known-living-author-the-best-regarded/669880/44): > > Yes, I saw that this morning. It’s ridiculous. Whatever one thinks of Bob Dylan, and of the literary merit of his lyrics, song lyrics are outside the scope of consideration for the Nobel in literature. It’s just a different thing. > > And, in any case, right off the top of my head, I could name a half-dozen (at least) songwriters who were better lyricists than Dylan. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/2 "2013-09-30T20:02:57Z")
As good as it gets. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/3 "2013-09-30T20:03:23Z")
Great! But I’m the right age and the right generation and the right politics. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/4 "2013-09-30T20:04:30Z")
Doesn’t get any better. Don’t ask about his singing. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/5 "2013-09-30T20:05:17Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > As good as it gets. Yep. I’d be interested in hearing someone argue otherwise. When he gets it right, there’s no one better. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/6 "2013-09-30T20:05:19Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Doesn’t get any better. Don’t ask about his singing. I think that’s great too. Not pretty, but great nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/7 "2013-09-30T20:37:04Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Great! But I’m the right age and the right generation and the right politics. Me, too, but I don’t know about the politics. He really was not a political person and resisted being labeled politically. I doubt we really knew or know what his politicas are. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/8 "2013-09-30T20:50:25Z")
Hi, I’m Little Nemo and I’m not a Bob Dylan fan. I don’t hate him. I just think he’s incredibly overrated. I think people invest meaning into Dylan’s lyrics that Dylan himself didn’t put there and then feel his songs are “deep” because of this subtext. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/9 "2013-09-30T21:07:10Z")
I voted “good,” but he’s just never clicked with me, for whatever reason. It’s one of the big holes in my musical appreciation. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/10 "2013-09-30T21:09:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think people invest meaning into Dylan’s lyrics that Dylan himself didn’t put there and then feel his songs are “deep” because of this subtext. Can you name some great songwriters for whom this is not true? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/11 "2013-09-30T21:10:16Z")
When you talk about Dylan’s songwriting, about 99% of the time you’re talking about his pre-accident albums. The rest is good, bad, and indifferent. The early stuff blows me away. And I wasn’t old enough to pick up on it when it was first released so it’s not pure nostalgia for the times. Genius isn’t a word I throw around lightly. But if there’s anything in rock that’s genius it’s early Dylan. That doesn’t make him a candidate for the Nobel Prize in Literature, though. And that other thread just depresses me. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/12 "2013-09-30T21:19:59Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The early stuff blows me away. And I wasn’t old enough to pick up on it when it was first released so it’s not pure nostalgia for the times. Genius isn’t a word I throw around lightly. But if there’s anything in rock that’s genius it’s early Dylan. He wasn’t a rocker back then (or now for that matter); he patterned what he did after Woodie Guthrie and even intentionally tried to imitate his voice. He became known for his anti-war themed songs (which were few and really weren’t all that strident), but most of what he did were folk-type songs and songs about the oppressed. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/13 "2013-09-30T21:29:25Z")
I started to get him when I sat down and listened to _Don’t Think Twice, It’s Alright_. I think I was in my 20’s or early 30’s - I simply avoided engaging for a long time - couldn’t handle the voice. But that song; damn. So effective and complex and bitter while fitting into a nice set of strummy chords. You’re welcome to not like the song, but to not acknowledge the brilliant craft of it just doesn’t ring true. ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/14 "2013-09-30T21:53:07Z")
If you can’t recognize the lyrical genius of “Tangled Up In Blue”, “Visions of Johanna”, “Gates of Eden” or many more songs, how can you discuss songwriting at all? I’d sure like to see the six songwriters the quoted poster thinks are better. Plus if Winston Churchill got a Nobel Prize for Literature based mostly on [his oratory,](http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/1953/) why not lyrics? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/15 "2013-09-30T21:57:18Z")
Writing ten, singing…um… Six, maybe five. I adore the parody by Neill Innes and Eric Idle on “Rutland Weekend Television.” [Here’s a link to the lyrics.](http://www.montypython.net/scripts/protestsong.php) ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/16 "2013-09-30T21:57:41Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Doesn’t get any better. Don’t ask about his singing. Exactly. Enunciation is also not exactly his strong suit. But lyrics and music? Oh yeah - he was great! ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/17 "2013-09-30T21:57:48Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > When you talk about Dylan’s songwriting, about 99% of the time you’re talking about his pre-accident albums. The rest is good, bad, and indifferent. > > The early stuff blows me away. And I wasn’t old enough to pick up on it when it was first released so it’s not pure nostalgia for the times. Genius isn’t a word I throw around lightly. But if there’s anything in rock that’s genius it’s early Dylan. 1997’s _Time Out of Mind_ was the album that got me hooked on Dylan. It won the Grammy for Album of the Year. Plus there’s the incredible _Blood on the Tracks_, which many would say is his finest album of all. So I very much disagree that everything post-accident wasn’t as good as his early stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/18 "2013-09-30T22:15:11Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > Can you name some great songwriters for whom this is not true? David Bowie, Leonard Cohen, Ray Davies, Nick Lowe, John Lennon, Aimee Mann, Paul McCartney, Joni Mitchell, Randy Newman, Lou Reed, Paul Simon, Bruce Springsteen, Pete Townshend, Tom Waits - with any of them, I feel that when I find some meaning in their song it’s because that’s what they meant. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/19 "2013-09-30T22:21:29Z")
Good to great. No one produces 100% greatness, but he had his moments. ETA. Good to great,\* in general\*. He wrote a lot. Some wouldn’t rise even to “good.”. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/20 "2013-09-30T22:48:17Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > He wasn’t a rocker back then (or now for that matter); he patterned what he did after Woodie Guthrie and even intentionally tried to imitate his voice. He became known for his anti-war themed songs (which were few and really weren’t all that strident), but most of what he did were folk-type songs and songs about the oppressed. He thought ahead to refute you by naming his fourth album _Another Side of Bob Dylan_. That marked the break with “folk-type songs and songs about the oppressed”. After that came the brilliance of _Bringing It All Back Home_, _Highway 61 Revisited_, and _Blonde on Blonde_, not to mention the single “Positively Fourth Street” which I love beyond measure. These peaks came after his folkie period, in which he had made himself the premiere folk singer and the “voice of a generation” in only four years. Not too shabby. > [@SaharaTea](#): > > 1997’s _Time Out of Mind_ was the album that got me hooked on Dylan. It won the Grammy for Album of the Year. Plus there’s the incredible _Blood on the Tracks_, which many would say is his finest album of all. So I very much disagree that everything post-accident wasn’t as good as his early stuff. That’s why I qualified my statement. We can disagree about the genius of the later work while still emphasizing its strengths. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > David Bowie, Leonard Cohen, Ray Davies, Nick Lowe, John Lennon, Aimee Mann, Paul McCartney, Joni Mitchell, Randy Newman, Lou Reed, Paul Simon, Bruce Springsteen, Pete Townshend, Tom Waits - with any of them, I feel that when I find some meaning in their song it’s because that’s what they meant. Jagger/Richards wrote better lyrics than most of their 60’s contemporaries. Definitely better than Lennon/McCartney or Townshend, and possibly better than Davies, although his lyrics are incredible. Even so, nobody thought then they were better than Dylan. He influenced all of them as well. They just aren’t possible without he did first. Did any of them put together a body of work that beats him at his peak? We can argue about that, but probably not. As for understanding, Walter Becker and Donald Fagan of Steely Dan are as good or better than any of the above and they’re normally incomprehensibly illusive and allusive. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030.md?page=2)