# How do you rate Bob Dylan's songwriting? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 30, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030 "2013-09-30T20:02:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/61 "2013-10-02T18:40:00Z")
I’ll stick with terrible. Not a single one of the quoted bits of lyrics-as-poetry move me at all. Most of them make me laugh, in fact. I like Hendrix’s _All Along the Watchtower_, but it isn’t for the lyrics. Note: I’m _not_ arguing Dylan wasn’t influential. Hell, I’m probably the biggest Billy Bragg fan in Cape Town, and where would he be without Dylan (Or Guthrie or Ochs…) \*I \*just don’t like Dylan’s lyrical voice. It’s similar to how I feel about Johnny Cash. Bleh! ---
**Author:** ![HenryDorsettCase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f19dbf/32.png) [@HenryDorsettCase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HenryDorsettCase)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/62 "2013-10-02T20:35:10Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Great! But I’m the right age and the right generation and the right politics. His early work was as The Poet of the first of us boomers. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/63 "2013-10-02T20:47:01Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Brian Wilson was a great songwriter but not a great lyricist. He didn’t even write the lyrics to many of his melodies. For the purposes of this thread, which is about great lyrics, he’s not even in contention. To be fair, the poll question does say songwriting. I know that’s not what prompted the OP, though. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/64 "2013-10-02T20:54:05Z")
Dylan is the one musician/songwriterfrom the 1960’s who I am sure will be remembered 500 years from now. He is fantastic. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/65 "2013-10-02T20:58:35Z")
I voted so-so. If it weren’t for his distinctive voice, he’d just be another folk-guitar guy. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/66 "2013-10-02T21:30:14Z")
> [@Mixolydian](#): > > I would say “Subterranean Homesick Blues” is a better example of a rap tune than “It’s Alright…”. > [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > “Twenty years of schoolin’ and they put you on the day shift.” > > Still cracks me up every time. The Beastie Boys rapped that line! It gets quoted in a song on _Hot Sauce Committee Part Two_. > [@MrDibble](#): > > I’ll stick with terrible. Not a single one of the quoted bits of lyrics-as-poetry move me at all. Most of them make me laugh, in fact. “When you’re lost in the rain in Juarez, and it’s Eastertime too…” ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/67 "2013-10-02T21:33:55Z")
Not just great, but the greatest. And why are so many speaking of him in the past tense? mmm ETA: > [@](#): > > I got a cravin’ love for blazin’ speed > I got a hopped up Mustang Ford > Jump into the wagon, love > Throw your panties overboard ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/68 "2013-10-02T21:40:08Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’ll stick with terrible. Not a single one of the quoted bits of lyrics-as-poetry move me at all. Most of them make me laugh, in fact. I would suggest that possibly the deficiency lays not with Dylan. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/69 "2013-10-02T21:54:10Z")
I voted “Great!” above, but as time has gone by, I’m beginning to think that Leonard Cohen is probably the better lyricist, albeit less accessible and more complex than Dylan. Dylan’s phrases are catchy and resonant; Cohen’s make you stop what you’re doing - whatever you’re doing - and process what you just heard. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/70 "2013-10-02T22:25:14Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > He wasn’t a rocker back then (or now for that matter); he patterned what he did after Woodie Guthrie and even intentionally tried to imitate his voice. He became known for his anti-war themed songs (which were few and really weren’t all that strident), but most of what he did were folk-type songs and songs about the oppressed. Define rocker. Explain why “Like a Rollin’ Stone” does not qualify. Actually, many people think he is a folk singer who turned into a rocker. Actually he is a rocker (in Minnesota) who turned into a folk singer who turned back into a rocker. Check out the very early “Mixed Up Confusion.” Not great rock, but definitely rock. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/71 "2013-10-02T22:32:59Z")
I voted great. In my junior year of college, 1971-72, I put up a different Dylan line every day on my door. And all I had were the pre-accident albums and some bootlegs. He also has tremendous range as a writer. Consider Freewheelin’, which contains both the most moving after the war song (Hard Rain) and the funniest after the war song (Talkin’ WW III Blues.) And he not only has some of the best protest songs he has maybe the best Vietnam War protest song that hardly anyone knows is a protest song - Tombstone Blues. Yeah, he has some dogs - I despise “Joey” - but his average is higher than anyone - especially over such a long career. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/72 "2013-10-02T23:42:52Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I voted so-so. > If it weren’t for his distinctive voice, he’d just be another folk-guitar guy. Glib nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/73 "2013-10-03T04:37:59Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I would suggest that possibly the deficiency lays not with Dylan. :rolleyes: Was this called for, at all? I don’t like his lyrical style, that makes me “deficient?” > [@StusBlues](#): > > I’m beginning to think that Leonard Cohen is probably the better lyricist, albeit less accessible and more complex than Dylan. Dylan’s phrases are catchy and resonant; Cohen’s make you stop what you’re doing - whatever you’re doing - and process what you just heard. This, I can easily agree with. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/74 "2013-10-03T11:31:56Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > :rolleyes:Was this called for, at all? I don’t like his lyrical style, that makes me “deficient?” No; laughing at lyrics that aren’t humorous, though? Hey, I have a deficiency or two myself. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/75 "2013-10-03T12:02:16Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > :rolleyes: > Was this called for, at all? I don’t like his lyrical style, that makes me “deficient?” No, but considering him a terrible songwriter because you dislike his style may do. If you are generally unable to recognise talent or skill in something that you dislike, that is certainly a deficiency. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/76 "2013-10-03T13:35:47Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I voted “Great” but I wish there’d been an option between good and great. > > I’m NOT of the right age or political persuasion to love Dylan, but I love a lot of his work anyway. But unlike many of his fans, I didn’t start liking him until the mid Seventies. See, when I was a kid, I associated Dylan with the lame songs we had to sing on the bus to camp, or that nuns made us sing at folk Mass. > > \*\*\*Desire \*\*\*was the first Dylan album I ever really got into, and it’s still my favorite (the long and wrong-headed “Hurricane” notwithstanding). Coincidentally, it was the mid-'70s for me too and _Desire_ was also my first Dylan album. I took to it immediately. Whatever the merits of “Hurricane”'s lyrics may or may not be, musically it’s terrific. “Oh Sister” has extremely questionable lyrics too, but musically it’s so lovely I can’t help enjoying it. Emmylou has _a lot_ to do with that. The Andalusian chord progression and melisma of “One More Cup of Coffee” has always made it one of my favorites, especially as a jam tune. Once I was hooked, there was no stopping. “Mr. Tambourine Man” still stands out as one of the greatest musical revelations of all time and it revolutionized my young mind like nothing else. It’s funny, when my Catholic Church got out the guitars in 1968–69, at first they sang “Blowin’ in the Wind” at Mass, but then replaced the original lyrics and sang the same tune with Catholic-type lyrics. I am approximately the right age to love Dylan, born in 1959, a kid sister to the baby boom, though I caught on late. Politically Dylan has been all over the place or noplace, but as a left liberal I always liked his anti-racist, anti-war, pro-working class lyrics. But the lyrics of “When You Gonna Wake Up” and “Neighborhood Bully” left me ice-cold, ugh. I think Dylan is at his best when he hits the sweet spot in his visionary, prophetic voice, exemplified by “Blind Willie McTell,” which may be the best song he’s ever done. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/77 "2013-10-03T17:49:48Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > No; laughing at lyrics that aren’t humorous, though? I laugh because they are definitely not, for me, poetry that will last 500 years, as someone intimated. They’re certainly not the best lyrics of the last 50. Like the post the OP referenced, I can think of 6 lyricists I rate a lot higher off the top of my head. > [@Steophan](#): > > No, but considering him a terrible songwriter because you dislike his style may do. If you are generally unable to recognise talent or skill in something that you dislike, that is certainly a deficiency. Oh, I’m able to _recognise_ talent. Dylan is certainly talented. But that doesn’t mean his songwriting appeals to me, so _to me_ he’s a terrible songwriter. Because to be a good songwriter _for me_, I kind of have to like your output. The OP wasn’t “What is the critical consensus on Dylan” it was “How do _YOU_ rate Dylan” It’s kind of like how Yngwie Malmsteen may be “technically” a good guitarist, but he gives me the heaves. Dylan’s not that extreme - I even like a couple of his songs. But given the size of his output, and that I outright despise some of his work (_Just Like A Woman_, for starters) that’s a very tiny number, so “Terrible” seemed the best pick of the options given. ---
**Author:** ![MrSquishy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@MrSquishy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrSquishy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/78 "2013-10-03T18:37:01Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > “Oh Sister” has extremely questionable lyrics too… You don’t think he’s singing about a female sibling, do you? [http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/bobdylan/ohsister.html](http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/bobdylan/ohsister.html) I’m certain the references to “sister”, “brother” and “Our Father” are in the figurative religious sense, i.e. the all men are my brothers, all women are my sisters, we all have one Father kind of deal. ---
**Author:** ![MrSquishy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@MrSquishy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrSquishy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/79 "2013-10-03T18:38:46Z")
P.S. I voted “Great”, because I think he is great, but I don’t think he’s the greatest of all time. I couldn’t say that about anybody. I think it’s kind of a dumb thing to say about anything, really. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030/80 "2013-10-03T21:32:50Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’ll stick with terrible. Not a single one of the quoted bits of lyrics-as-poetry move me at all. Most of them make me laugh, in fact. > > I like Hendrix’s _All Along the Watchtower_, but it isn’t for the lyrics. > > Note: I’m _not_ arguing Dylan wasn’t influential. Hell, I’m probably the biggest Billy Bragg fan in Cape Town, and where would he be without Dylan (Or Guthrie or Ochs…) \*I \*just don’t like Dylan’s lyrical voice. It’s similar to how I feel about Johnny Cash. Bleh! Do you like Hendrix’s All Along the Watchtower for the music? Who do you think wrote the music? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-rate-bob-dylans-songwriting/670030.md?page=5)