# How do you remember your ATM PIN? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 23, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510 "2011-04-23T22:39:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/61 "2011-04-25T23:41:57Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > I refuse to pay a fee to get my own money. There are four ATMs within 15 miles of my house that do not require a fee, as they are all owned by my bank. Also, I use my PIN every time I use my debit card. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/62 "2011-04-25T23:44:54Z")
Legitimate magical third option: derived via equation. I don’t remember the number but I remember the equation, and solve it again every time. (no, not really) ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/63 "2011-04-25T23:46:28Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > I refuse to pay a fee to get my own money. Have you heard of banks? They don’t usually charge a fee to use their ATMs if you have an account with them. Worth looking into. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/64 "2011-04-26T00:02:08Z")
Where I live there is no fee for ATM withdrawals at 7-11 stores. Don’t know if this is a countrywide policy or not though. Anyway, unless your bank has charges of its own for ATM withdrawals, that provides a convenient way to get your money without having to pay to do so. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/65 "2011-04-26T00:41:37Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Have you heard of banks? They don’t usually charge a fee to use their ATMs if you have an account with them. Worth looking into. I wish that was true for me. But it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/66 "2011-04-26T00:53:38Z")
Mine’s easy. It’s 1357. Now I hope none of you jokers gets your hands on my card. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/67 "2011-04-26T02:50:21Z")
I never pay ATM fees. They’re very easy to avoid. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/68 "2011-04-26T12:15:03Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Where I live there is no fee for ATM withdrawals at 7-11 stores. Don’t know if this is a countrywide policy or not though. Anyway, unless your bank has charges of its own for ATM withdrawals, that provides a convenient way to get your money without having to pay to do so. Exactly, my ATM card doubles as a debit card. Visa doesn’t charge you a transaction fee, nor is there a fee to get cash back. If I’m short on cash, I’ll usually use my ATM card to buy lunch at the Grocery store across the parking lot from my office, and get cash back. No fees, and I don’t have to trek over to the credit union. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/69 "2011-04-26T13:43:22Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > 1101? 2408? 3927? There’s not a lot of choices if you want to squeeze it into four digits. (If you are using a PIN longer than four digits, all bets are off.) > > I’d change it now. Maybe it’s longer than 4. Maybe not. I’m never changing my pin. Nobody has my debit card number, so what’s to worry about? Besides, most places let you swipe a debit card with a visa-logo as a credit card, without having to know the pin anyway. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/70 "2011-04-26T14:36:57Z")
If you memorize by pattern, what happens if you encounter a keypad that’s different (1 at the top left vs 1 on the bottom left)? Anyway, In my head a number and its location on a 789 keypad are indistinguishable. I do a lot of number-punching at work. ---
**Author:** ![ethelbert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ethelbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ethelbert)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/71 "2011-04-26T17:04:36Z")
Its Bosco. Yeah. Bosco. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/72 "2011-04-26T17:52:58Z")
It’s the same as my Student ID number when I was in college. And no, I don’t know why they only assigned four digits. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/73 "2011-04-26T18:44:41Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I wish that was true for me. But it’s not. What do you mean “for you”? Do you live in Botswana or something? If you’re in the U.S., you have the same banks available to you that I do. If your bank charges you to use their own ATMs, then you use the wrong bank. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/74 "2011-04-26T18:47:39Z")
I chose the “I memorized it by the number” option, though to be fair, I chose a number that already had a meaning to me. My old one used to be cool: the numbers made a shape on the keypad, AND spelled out a meaningful name (a certain character from _Star Trek_\*), but for some reason, I got to where I would brain-lock on it at the worst times, so I chose something I could just remember the numbers for. - No, not Worf. ---
**Author:** ![Marc\_Xenos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Marc\_Xenos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marc_Xenos)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/75 "2011-04-26T19:46:29Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > I refuse to pay a fee to get my own money. I also refuse to pay a fee to USE my own money. When using my debit card with a PIN, I’m paying $1.50 for the privilege, whether the sale amount is $1 or $1,000. For a $10 sale, that’s a 15% fee for using my debit card. Using it as a credit card, I pay no fee because the merchant pays it. And with him, it’s usually less than 2%, regardless of the sale amount. So for a $10 sales, he’s paying less than 20¢ compared to my $1.50. Also, if somebody happens to get your PIN, the bank considers it to be your fault for being sloppy and the money is lost. But while credit card protection laws do not apply to debit cards used as credit cards, Visa and Mastercard both currently extend Zero Liability protection to debit cards when used as credit cards on disputed charges. Other purchase protections _may_ also apply when using a debit card as a credit card, such as warranty/return disputes or price protections. Used as a debit card, there are no such protections. ---
**Author:** ![Marc\_Xenos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Marc\_Xenos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marc_Xenos)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/76 "2011-04-26T19:59:05Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > Also, if you have a PIN for it, you can run a credit card as a debit card at the gas station, and for some gas stations around here, it’s up to 10 cents cheaper per gallon to do so. At $1.50 - $2.00 fee for a debit card transaction, let’s take the cheaper option, $1.50. Reg unleaded gas is currently running around $3.50 a gallon around these parts. (I know, it’s more elsewhere, but let’s keep it cheap.) So, in order to just break even by saving 10¢ a gallon, you’d need to fill up with at least 15 gallons. You don’t start saving money until after that point. Now, my truck has a tank capacity of 26 gallons. If I were on Empty, it would be worthwhile. (It would also mean a fillup of $91, next to which, a savings of a buck and a half is pretty miniscule. Really, does it matter that I’m “only” paying $89.50?) So, if I normally fill up my truck when it’s half empty, that’s 13 gallons which means I’m losing money by using a debit card fee. Not much, compared to the overall cost, but consider THIS: The pump shuts off, how many people bother with a receipt, and someone else comes along to discover that the pump never really did shut off. So they fill up their empty car with gasoline on YOUR debit card. Lots of luck trying to dispute it with the bank. You can forget even trying to dispute it with the station. But using the card as a credit card, you’ve got some leverage. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/77 "2011-04-26T22:28:13Z")
> [@Marc\_Xenos](#): > > I also refuse to pay a fee to USE my own money. When using my debit card with a PIN, I’m paying $1.50 for the privilege, whether the sale amount is $1 or $1,000. For a $10 sale, that’s a 15% fee for using my debit card. Using it as a credit card, I pay no fee because the merchant pays it. And with him, it’s usually less than 2%, regardless of the sale amount. So for a $10 sales, he’s paying less than 20¢ compared to my $1.50. > > Also, if somebody happens to get your PIN, the bank considers it to be your fault for being sloppy and the money is lost. But while credit card protection laws do not apply to debit cards used as credit cards, Visa and Mastercard both currently extend Zero Liability protection to debit cards when used as credit cards on disputed charges. > > Other purchase protections _may_ also apply when using a debit card as a credit card, such as warranty/return disputes or price protections. Used as a debit card, there are no such protections. I use a zero-annual fee credit card, & pay it off every month. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/78 "2011-04-26T22:47:44Z")
> [@Marc\_Xenos](#): > > consider THIS: The pump shuts off, how many people bother with a receipt Other people don’t bother with a receipt? 😕 I assumed everybody took the receipt. I do. ---
**Author:** ![Marc\_Xenos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Marc\_Xenos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marc_Xenos)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/79 "2011-04-26T22:54:16Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > I use a zero-annual fee credit card, & pay it off every month. I pick my toes in Poughkeepsie, also DO know how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood. But for people with card PINs, that’s referring to debit cards. My comment was that using a debit card as a credit card offers advantages that far outweigh their use as a debit card, rendering the PIN nearly irrelevant. But as someone else pointed out, not all PINs are associated with debit cards. Many utility/subscription services now require you to establish a PIN before they’ll discuss the private details of your account with you. ---
**Author:** ![Marc\_Xenos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Marc\_Xenos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marc_Xenos)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510/80 "2011-04-26T23:01:42Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > Other people don’t bother with a receipt? 😕 I _ **assumed** _ everybody took the receipt. I do. There’s that “assumption” thing again. All ya gotta do is just be aware of the people around you. Me, I always get a receipt, for several reasons. One, it’s so I can track my gasoline usage. Two, it’s protected me in the past when I was accused of a driver-off without paying; the receipt proved I did, too, pay. Similarly, a station owner tried to hold me liable for driving off with the pump handle still in my car, thereby ripping it off, and he wanted my insurance information. I didn’t use that pump, and my receipt proved it with both the pump number and cost amount. And, third, to avoid exactly what I described, a pump not shutting off and ending the transaction as it’s supposed to. The receipt ensures that the transaction was complete so I don’t have to worry about a faulty pump. Now, ain’t I just special? I’m so clever. But not everyone is perfect like me. Most people don’t get a receipt. They should, but they don’t. And I ain’t their Daddy, so my advice is pretty worthless. But, along with other advantages of using a debit card as a credit card, you’ve got some leverage to dispute an erroneous charge that you don’t have with just a debit card. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-remember-your-atm-pin/579510.md?page=5)