# How do you say "goon" in arabic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 3, 2004, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999 "2004-04-03T01:46:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/1 "2004-04-03T01:46:46Z")
The bodies of the four civilian (security) contractors (read mercenaries) were treated worse than most uniformed soldiers’ remains (as far as I can recall.) May we possibly infer that the “civilian contractors” in question, operating under the authority of, and in the name of, but outside of the control of, the us satrap, are conducting themselves in a manner so as to draw an extra measure of hate? As nearly as I can glean, these are 150k/annum special forces alum, notable for their large size, their zeal, and their enthusiastic contempt for rules of engagement. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/2 "2004-04-03T01:57:11Z")
I find the silence of the “liberal” media on this issue interesting. It may just be that the fact that these “un-uniformed” (I’m sure they actually have corporate uniforms, but you get the idea) mercenaries are resented more. I wouldn’t leap out on a limb and say that they are violating human rights (other than being there) without strong evidence, but if you had some foreign army guys sitting in a camp outside the city, and some foreign mercenaries sitting around the city guarding the points of (economic) interest in the city, which would you target? In all likelihood, it probably was an isolated event that mushroomed on chance, not some conspiracy or plan. I wouldn’t rule it out from happening again in the future, though. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/3 "2004-04-03T02:20:28Z")
I was not reaching for any large meta conclusion, but plainclothes cops are always a little freer to …ya’ feel me? I guess the more interesting question is how wise/unwise to delegate this high-end security responsibility without maintaining operational control. I’m thinking phoenix program redux. We can’t begin to afford the kind of atrocities that were routine in southeast asia at the fringes, given the global reach of revenge which is way greater than in 1965. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/4 "2004-04-03T03:01:45Z")
I looked up “goon” in _al-Mawrid_ English-Arabic dictionary. It didn’t give a single-word equivalent (apparently because Arabic has no single word that corrsponds to this meaning). Instead, it offered only a definition: _shakhs yusta’jaru li-tarwî‘ al-khusûm aw al-qadâ’ ‘alayhim_. Translated from Arabic, that means: “A person hired to scare opponents, or to kill them.” Woody Guthrie had this really cool song on the subject: \*There once was a union maid, she never was afraid Of the goons and the ginks and the company finks And the deputy sheriffs who made the raid She went to the union hall when a meeting it was called And when the Legion boys came round she always stood her ground: Oh you can’t scare me, I’m stickin’ to the union. I’m stickin’ to the union, I’m stickin’ to the union Oh you can’t scare me, I’m stickin’ to the union I’m stickin’ to the union 'till the day I die!\* ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/5 "2004-04-03T03:07:18Z")
I had woody’s goon in mind. Perhaps I should have said, “goon squad”. actually, the arabic def. you cited seems pretty much on point. The principle is the same as when you hire a bouncer. Large and intimidating are job qualifications. Do these guys wear jumpsuits, or did I just make that up ? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/6 "2004-04-03T03:45:50Z")
[Herald Tribune](http://www.iht.com/articles/513165.html) > [@](#): > > The murderous attack on four American civilians in Falluja, Iraq, brought home gruesome images of charred bodies dangling from a bridge over the Euphrates River. It also introduced Americans to a company few had heard of: Blackwater USA, which was providing security for food delivery convoys when its employees were ambushed. which was providing security for food delivery convoys when its employees were ambushed. > > Blackwater, which operates from a 5,200-acre, or 2,100 hectares, training ground in the Great Dismal Swamp of North Carolina, is a private military firm that provides an array of services once performed solely by military personnel. The company trains foreign soldiers and corporate security teams in counterterrorism and urban warfare. > > It also provides the American government with soldiers for hire: former Green Berets, Army Rangers and Navy Seals. \*\*In February it started training former Chilean commandos - some of whom served under the dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet - for future service in Iraq. > > Business is booming at Blackwater, and the company is hardly alone. Private contractors are an invisible but growing part of how war is now fought. Some 10,000 of them are serving in Iraq - one contractor for every 10 soldiers - more than the number of soldiers from Great Britain, America’s largest coalition partner.\*\* So much for the “regular civilians” bit. ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/7 "2004-04-03T03:54:50Z")
Now Gentlemen. I know that you four are desperately trying to find a rationale for the pig-sucking bastards who drug the cold bodies of the four Americans that they murdered through the dirty sewers that serve as the Falluja streets, other than the fact that they are of a race of pigs, not men. But as for me I find your attempt to desecrate the names of these four brave Americans cowardly. These men were in Iraq protecting people who were trying to help the Iraqi people, and you four have found it amusing to imply and insinuate that they somehow deserved their unspeakable fate. Does it please you to bring grief to their families? I realize that you four are probably just youngsters, but it is time that you began to understand that true men are to be treated with respect even at their death. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/8 "2004-04-03T04:35:51Z")
Now Waiiiit, a minute…I was not denigrating the families loss, and I wish EVERY soldier, in and out of uniform, was getting 150K… I was trying to deconstruct the metacommunication (if any) of the mob’s behavior. BTW, these guys are described as driving through towns at 95 mph (understandably…) to avoid getting shot. query:any colleteral damage from these journies? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/9 "2004-04-03T04:48:54Z")
> [@Milum](#): > > Now Gentlemen. I know that you four are desperately trying to find a rationale for the pig-sucking bastards who drug the cold bodies of the four Americans that they murdered through the dirty sewers that serve as the Falluja streets, other than the fact that they are of a race of pigs, not men. Yep. Real men firebomb cities and retreating enemy forces and call it a day. Go America! Wait, you’d probably find nothing wrong with that, seeing as how you’re keen on genocide… ah well. I don’t know if you were including me in your illustious four, and I realize that you’re trolling for responses, but this is, after all, a debate forum. Many people realize, however, that when you invade an enemy country, they tend not to take kindly to you walking around with assault rifles. Frankly, they knew the risks they were taking, and they were unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don’t see the logic in invading someone’s country, then being shocked when they get a bit upset and off some soldiers. I mean, how dare they not know better than being a puppet state for a western superpower. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/10 "2004-04-03T05:06:32Z")
> [@Milum](#): > > These men were in Iraq protecting people who were trying to help the Iraqi people, and you four have found it amusing to imply and insinuate that they somehow deserved their unspeakable fate. There is already a long thread about this topic where it has been debated in depth already so I am not going to repeat everything but they were NOT “in Iraq protecting people who were trying to help the Iraqi people”. That is a lie and you know it. They were protecting American military operations and they were legitimate targets. > [@](#): > > Does it please you to bring grief to their families? Does it please you to bring grief to the families of Iraqis killed by American forces? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/11 "2004-04-03T05:13:24Z")
> [@Milum](#): > > I know that you four are desperately trying to find a rationale for the pig-sucking bastards who drug the cold bodies of the four Americans that they murdered through the dirty sewers that serve as the Falluja streets, other than the fact that they are of a race of pigs, not men. That sounds pretty racist to me. Would you like to reword or explain? > [@](#): > > it is time that you began to understand that true men are to be treated with respect even at their death. Who sets the rules? It’s okay to kill as long as you treat the dead with respect? Says who? Who said the other side has to play by American rules? The other thread on this same topic: [Mercenaries for America](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=248640) ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/12 "2004-04-03T05:39:12Z")
I’m more worried about what these guys do when they are alive. More to the point, how many are doing this work within the us, or how fast could the ten thou in Iraq turn up in manhattan. I’ve been pondering the coming coup, and I’ve always had trouble envisioning the human resources solution, but maybe privatizing is the way to go. Isn’t there an 18 man coup contingent inconvenientlyi crashed somewhere in africa at the moment? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/13 "2004-04-04T08:01:48Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > The bodies of the four civilian (security) contractors (read mercenaries) were treated worse than most uniformed soldiers’ remains (as far as I can recall.) > > May we possibly infer that the “civilian contractors” in question, operating under the authority of, and in the name of, but outside of the control of, the us satrap, are conducting themselves in a manner so as to draw an extra measure of hate? > . You would have to assume first that the crowd was aware of the exact identity/job of these people, and I somehow doubt it (the people who attacked/killed them at the first place could have known who they were, though. Or perhaps not). There has been many instances of an angry mob defiling bodies. IMO, it’s just that people have a tendency to act with utter savagery in some circumstances. Mobs aren’t known for having a high capacity to reason, and don’t need perfectly sound motivations and correct informations to act upon their impulses. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/14 "2004-04-04T20:58:32Z")
I believe these guys wear (at least) distincitive caps and are tooling about in non-military vehicles. I’ll bet (with ten thousand “contractors” in country) they stand out for flash, size, and free-lance style. somewhat off topic, do we have any of these guys working here in what they call, the Fatherla…(oops), the Homeland? I’m going to advance the troubling hypothesis that there are similarily high paid veterans of exotic branches of the service now working the private side domestically. If, for instance, lumpensturmfuhrer ashcroft sought to “deputize” a hundred thousand “contractors” to "maintain order? at the polling places, would the personnel be available? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/15 "2004-04-04T21:07:41Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m going to advance the troubling hypothesis that there are similarily high paid veterans of exotic branches of the service now working the private side domestically. Well, yea. Professional security companies do this for a living. They didn’t pop up out of the blue for Iraq- they provide security for people and private places. They also do for some government locations - it is rumored that they do for “Area 51.” They have a lot of service internationally, such as in business ventures in Africa, where companies require escorts for their employees going into town. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/16 "2004-04-04T21:45:41Z")
Well, yea. Professional security companies do this for a living precisely. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/17 "2004-04-04T22:38:38Z")
Man, this thread is depressing. The notion that people who go to work to provide security for private companies are somehow ‘mercenaries’ is silly enough. To further suggest that because they are ‘mercenaries’ they are legitimate targets is crazier. To go even farther and suggest somehow they got what they deserved for having the incredible nerve of, a) being trained well, and b) trying to keep innocent people from being killed, it simply offensive. But the crazy-meter goes absolutely off the scale when stuff like this appears: > [@](#): > > somewhat off topic, do we have any of these guys working here in what they call, the Fatherla…(oops), the Homeland? > > I’m going to advance the troubling hypothesis that there are similarily high paid veterans of exotic branches of the service now working the private side domestically. > > If, for instance, lumpensturmfuhrer ashcroft sought to “deputize” a hundred thousand “contractors” to "maintain order? at the polling places, would the personnel be available? Oh yeah, the U.S. is just like Nazi Germany, and John Ashcroft is a commander of storm troopers, and the evil Bush administration is just about to send the brown shirts out to the polling places to intimidate people and crack some heads. That this entire thread is taken seriously by the regulars is proof that the fight against ignorance on the Straight Dope has been lost. Security guards are not ‘combatants’. They are not waging war on anyone. They are no threat to anyone who does not threaten their clients. Saying that they are legitimate targets is like saying Brinks guards are legitimate targets because they have guns, and if you shoot at them they’ll shoot back. > [@](#): > > I’ve been pondering the coming coup, and I’ve always had trouble envisioning the human resources solution, but maybe privatizing is the way to go. Isn’t there an 18 man coup contingent inconvenientlyi crashed somewhere in africa at the moment? The ‘coming coup’? Oh, man. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Saul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58f4c7/32.png) [@Roland\_Saul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Saul)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/18 "2004-04-04T22:46:30Z")
“Race of pigs” ??? I would have thought this board above that type of thing. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/19 "2004-04-04T22:51:33Z")
You will not, I take it, be troubled by this upi story: ?A coalition military source told UPI there have been repeated complaints about the behavior of some of the armed contractors. “We have had several complaints about these guys,” he said. “I have had reports from journalists about a group of guys from (a prominent military contracting firm) that got drunk and knocked one journalist to the floor. We’ve also heard stories of them threatening people with guns over this issue. We hate them. They’re not soldiers and they walk around a war zone armed and not held accountable for their actions.” Another combat soldier with the 4th Infantry Division, which patrols much of Baghdad, complained about the presence of so many armed civilians in a very dangerous city. “I’m a soldier and this is a war,” he said, leaning against a Bradley Fighting Vehicle and cradling his M-4 carbine. “I’m trained to shoot anyone not in uniform that presents a weapon. What the hell do I do with these guys? They have permission to be here, but I’m supposed to ask a guy with an automatic weapon for ID before I engage him?” One incident witnessed by a CPA contract employee working for the Iraqi Media Network, the television news branch of the occupation authority, involved an accidental shooting at the hands of private security guards.? Doesn?t sound exacty like kindly ?Pop? Jensen, who checks you in and out of your high-rise office building each day… And, yes, it COULD happen here. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999/20 "2004-04-04T22:52:10Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Man, this thread is depressing. The notion that people who go to work to provide security for private companies are somehow ‘mercenaries’ is silly enough. To further suggest that because they are ‘mercenaries’ they are legitimate targets is crazier. Well, they are when they are hired by the US Army and other government branches to defend US officials, US military installations, and US-captured and controlled industrial sites. O\_o If we were talking about an Iraqi 7-11 (who’d work there? White guys?), I can see your point. But these aren’t rent-a-cops working for privately owned businesses. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-say-goon-in-arabic/237999.md?page=2)