# How do you 'see' R.E.M now? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2009, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601 "2009-04-28T09:38:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quintas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@Quintas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quintas)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/1 "2009-04-28T09:38:45Z")
I was feeling nostalgiac and listened to Fables of the Reconstruction coming home from work today. I like a good bit of REM from the late 80’s and early 90’s, but the band that really mattered to me was those first 3 albums. 4 if you count Chronic Town. But then I was thinking that for a whole lot of people, when they think of REM, they think of the talented but mainstream band REM became in the late 80’s/early 90’s. Also, for them, Michael Stipe has _always_ been bald. So which REM is yours? The jangle pop college band or the rock stars? ---
**Author:** ![rexnervous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@rexnervous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rexnervous)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/2 "2009-04-28T10:59:46Z")
Jangle pop. They became well-ish known alt rock stars in what, 84 or 85? That’s when I was in college. Hell, I saw them on the Fables tour. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_Clock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Shot\_Clock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_Clock)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/3 "2009-04-28T11:09:57Z")
I consider REM to be two separate entities: one with Bill Berry, and another one without. I’m in the jangle-pop camp, but really enjoyed all their albums up to Berry’s departure (yes, even Monster). The post-Berry stuff just doesn’t do it for me , although I did like the last album. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/4 "2009-04-28T11:51:38Z")
The first few - only, really. By the time they became MTV darlings, I didn’t hear it anymore. By the time Everybody Hurts came out, I just shook my head. Fine enough song if you like that type of thing, but from the band that did Pilgrimage? Harborcoat? ---
**Author:** ![Lilacs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Lilacs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilacs)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/5 "2009-04-28T11:56:16Z")
I love Chronic Town. I have all the early stuff, but I just found myself not as interested in the direction they took after Bill Berry left. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/6 "2009-04-28T11:57:12Z")
Yep, \*Chronic Town \* through maybe half of _Document_ for me. I stopped following them after _Green_. ---
**Author:** ![ColonelDax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@ColonelDax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColonelDax)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/7 "2009-04-28T13:34:28Z")
> [@Quintas](#): > > The jangle pop college band or the rock stars? Definitely the first one. One of the very best concerts I have attended consisted of R.E.M. opening for headliner The English Beat at Vanderbilt University in spring 1983. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/8 "2009-04-28T13:49:52Z")
Sometime in th '90’s, Peter Buck (I think it was) said the band was considering disbanding on midnight of New Year’s Eve 1999. I think they should have done that, because from what I can tell they’ve put out boring dreck since then, and their relevance in the cultural scene is not what it was (except, I’m told, in Europe). Anyway, IMHO they peaked around 1986 (_Lifes Rich Pageant_), with their jangly, “alternative” '80’s sound (alternative to the synth pop of the time), but also put out some delightfully tuneful, creative albums in the early '90’s, then started to lose their way just after _New Adventures in HiFi_. In other words, I loved the “jangle pop era”, and I liked quite a bit the “rock star era”, up to Bill Berry’s departure. ---
**Author:** ![scout1222](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/34f0e0/32.png) [@scout1222](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scout1222)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/9 "2009-04-28T15:58:33Z")
I would say I’m straddling both. I first came to know them with their _Out of Time_ album, which I loved. This was junior/senior year in high school. Then I was in that horrible college-emo phase when “Everybody Hurts” came out, so that really spoke to me (I KNOW I KNOW). I did go back to some of their earlier stuff once I got to know them. I do like their newer, rock-ier stuff (like Monster) and hell, I saw them last year at the Hollywood Bowl. But to me they are always the alternative band on the cusp of making it huge. My husband, on the other hand, never knew them before Monster, so he’s in the “they’re rockstars and he’s bald” camp. He’s only 2 years younger than I am, but apparently it’s a critical difference. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/10 "2009-04-28T16:09:01Z")
I got _Chronic Town_ soon after it came out, and was immediately hooked (hell I have the original indie version single of “Radio Free Europe” somewhere). I more or less followed them religiously through _Automatic for the People_ (a truly classic album by most any standard-good songwriting is good songwriting no matter what the guitar sound), but _Monster_ pretty much turned me off to them, and of the albums which came after only the criminally-underrated _Reveal_ really grabbed me. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/11 "2009-04-28T18:04:36Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Sometime in th '90’s, Peter Buck (I think it was) said the band was considering disbanding on midnight of New Year’s Eve 1999. I think they should have done that, because from what I can tell they’ve put out boring dreck since then, and their relevance in the cultural scene is not what it was (except, I’m told, in Europe). I thought their last album was very good, although nothing short of a miracle is going to return them to relevance here. They had their day. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/12 "2009-04-28T18:19:28Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > I thought their last album was very good, although nothing short of a miracle is going to return them to relevance here. They had their day. True that. The 4 tracks I heard on the new album were not really bad, just nothing fresh and special. I’ll bet Bill is making tastier stuff on his farm these days. ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/13 "2009-04-28T18:49:34Z")
Having been exposed to REM a couple of years before they became huge, I feel about them now the same way I did when all my friends were grooving on them from the college alternative station: Whiny, pretentious and over-rated. ---
**Author:** ![Quintas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@Quintas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quintas)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/14 "2009-04-28T19:29:49Z")
> [@FallenAngel](#): > > Having been exposed to REM a couple of years before they became huge, I feel about them now the same way I did when all my friends were grooving on them from the college alternative station: Whiny, pretentious and over-rated. fair enough. But i’ve always hated the term ‘over-rated’ when applied to _any_ band. You either like the band, or some of their stuff or don’t. What does the fact that critics rate them higher than you do have to do with whether or not you like some songs? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/15 "2009-04-28T19:53:37Z")
I prefer the old stuff, I haven’t paid attention to the last 4 albums at all. I was hooked the first time I heard _Radio Free Europe._ _Automatic for the People_ is a terrific album but if I had to choose a favorite I’d go with _Reconstruction of the Fables._ 😉 I’m I the only one who thinks that _New Adventures in Hi-Fi_ is also a great album? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/16 "2009-04-28T20:05:28Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > I’m I the only one who thinks that _New Adventures in Hi-Fi_ is also a great album? It’s a funny mish-mash of their previous styles, from the early days right up through Monster. I think “New Test Leper” is a great song, but I wouldn’t call the album as a whole “great”, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/17 "2009-04-28T21:08:16Z")
Both. I just pretend _Around the Sun_ didn’t happen, though. _Up_ was very good in places, and _Reveal_ was okay, but _Around the Sun_ was just utterly unlistenable. Fortunately, _Accelerate_ was great. For background, _Chronic Town_ came out a year before I was born. My mom’s been listening to them since about that time. I personally didn’t get into them until about a year after Bill Berry left the band. I’ve always been into the old stuff. My favorite song by them’s “Feeling Gravitys Pull.” But I also recognize that Automatic is a fucking brilliant album. Some of their early stuff is, IMHO, not overly terrific. . .but a lot of it is really, _really_ fucking good. The aforementioned “Pilgrimage,” for instance. My favorite album is _Document_. ---
**Author:** ![Quintas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@Quintas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quintas)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/18 "2009-04-28T21:27:29Z")
[![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6dWK8JroUU) 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/19 "2009-04-28T21:47:52Z")
At the first release of “Radio Free Europe” in the summer of 1981, I had just started summer classes in my first year of college and living in the dorms…our campus radio station played the tune almost hourly. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601/20 "2009-04-28T22:12:29Z")
REM used to be one of my favorites but I’ve only seen them in concert once, in a 6,000-seat arena at a local college. It was about the time that some popular magazine (Rolling Stone?) put them on the cover with the caption “The World’s Most Important Band” (or something like that). I got the impression they really didn’t want to be there. They had booked the tour when they were still somewhat obscure indie rockers but were performing as full-fledged pop phenomena who thought they could and should be somewhere better. Musically they were everything I expected, but Michael Stipe’s attitude between songs dripped with condescension and contempt for his audience. Obviously my impressions are subjective. Maybe he was always like that, or maybe he ate something for lunch that disagreed with him, but that concert has diminished my appreciation of their subsequent work. (Not right away though. I was never a frequent concertgoer in my youth, and it wasn’t until I had seen the rapport that other performers had with their audiences that I looked back and realized just how unpleasant he had been.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-see-r-e-m-now/494601.md?page=2)