# How do you solve a problem like Tuberville **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 25, 2023, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571 "2023-07-25T17:41:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/101 "2023-08-30T14:43:57Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > But that level of disregard for policy and law and sufficient lackeys to pull it off can _also_ allow a president to summarily fire any non-loyalists from the GO ranks and do the exact same thing. In both cases, we’re so far from norms or (IANAL) legality that we’d be looking at events as a military coup. It’s a game of chicken. “You give me this list, and I’ll block it for all time. Give me a better list!” And Trump will keep repeating that until he gets a list he likes. At what point does the military, or whoever, decide that this game of chicken has gone on too long, and start your civil war, or military coup, or whatever? Is that before of after they decide that giving Trump a list he likes is better for the country than a civil war? Trump gives them three options: 1. A stalled leadership, with key positions unfilled because promotions and appointments are being held up 2. MAGA Military, in which they give him what he wants in hopes that it won’t be a complete disaster 3. Open rebellion and civil war. Which option would you bet on them choosing? ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/102 "2023-08-30T14:55:40Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > That mechanism is not predicated on Tommy Tuberville doing anything in 2023, though. This is a good point. If Trump wants to have this battle with the military he can do it regardless of Tubervilles actions here. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/103 "2023-08-30T15:00:50Z")
The process for producing a promotion list is like 9 months long; it involves lots of paperwork, up to a 2 week long promotion board involving upwards of a dozen general officers, lawyers reviewing every name put forward, and congressional oversight to make sure the procedures are followed. The list is not produced at the behest of the president, it is produced by the service branch itself and given to the president as almost a formality. Option 2 is not an option without option 3. The folks involved in producing the list are obligated to follow the law. If they all decide “fuck it, we’ll just make up a list of MAGAts,” we’re already in option 3 territory. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/104 "2023-08-30T15:08:26Z")
To bring back to the topic of the thread, IMHO what Tuberville is doing here is nothing more than political terrorism. I don’t think it’s part of any larger plot for a 2024 Trump presidency, I think he’s probably a true believer on this abortion issue. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/105 "2023-08-30T15:12:30Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > Currently Tuberville has over 200 holds on individual nominees. Without unanimous consent, Schumer can still bring each nomination to the floor, but it is a much longer process The Dems should do that and force Tuberville to concede or be accountable to his fellow Senators by saying, “Yes. I’m willing to dig my heels in over this.” The Senate is too nice and just like on filibusters if someone is threatening to bring the process to a halt then make them pay the price for it. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/106 "2023-08-30T15:48:50Z")
Do you think Trump knows any of that? Do you think he’d care, even if he did? He’s not a leader, he’s a boss. He’ll tell them “Shut up nerds! This is what I want, get it done!”, and then tweet about how Putin defenestrated that general last week. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/107 "2023-08-30T16:07:56Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > To bring back to the topic of the thread, IMHO what Tuberville is doing here is nothing more than political terrorism. I don’t think it’s part of any larger plot for a 2024 Trump presidency, I think he’s probably a true believer on this abortion issue. I don’t think this is even about abortion. It’s just the usual obstructionist trolling from the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/108 "2023-08-31T16:15:45Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > > [@Stratocaster](#): > > > > I haven’t followed this closely enough—is this plausible? I mean, are there really a subset of potential promotions that are “woke” or “liberal” or some other icky thing, and the GOP strategy is to delay until they can advance the true American, Jesus-approved promotions? > > Go back and re-read the thread, or at least articles that were cited. > > The claim originally put forth was that one reason the coup failed was because the military wouldn’t support such an idea. Tuberville’s holding up appointments is like McConnell’s holding up Supreme Court appointments – it potentially allows the next president (presumed to be Republican) to appoint military officers more compliant to a coup. Tommy ain’t that smart. He has abortion on the brain. The rest of the republicans in congress would have much rather used this for a more important reason but now they have to go along and try to use it for their advantage. The vast majority (no pun intended) of the promotions are for low level field grade officers. Congress or anyone isn’t going to know who some random Captain getting promoted to major is. _A Few Good Men_ was not a documentary. Jessup was way too famous for his rank. They are a dime a dozen. The top appointments are different. The rest are collateral damage. Whatever is going on behind the scenes is Washington as usual but don’t give Tommy too much credit. He’s a moronic zealot. He didn’t have a grand scheme behind this other than playing to his anti-abortion base. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/109 "2023-09-07T12:03:33Z")
According to Tuberville, things have gotten so “woke” in the Navy that they’re actually reciting poetry over loudspeakers. I know that sounds insane, but it’s true: > [@](#): > > “Right now we are so woke in the military, we are losing recruits right and left,” he said. “Secretary [Carlos] Del Toro of the Navy he needs to get to building ships; he needs to get to recruiting; and he needs to get wokeness out of our Navy. We’ve got people doing poems on aircraft carriers over the loudspeaker. It is absolutely insane the direction that we’re headed in our military.” > **[Sen. Tommy Tuberville Says He's Worried About Sailors Reciting Poetry On Ships](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tommy-tuberville-poetry-navy_n_64f9912ee4b00241f854e77a)** > > The Alabama senator tried to defend his widely criticized blocking of military promotions with anti-"woke" blather. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/110 "2023-09-07T12:23:30Z")
What have you got against Warrior Poets, Senator? _Of the rage, oh goddess, sing of the rage of Peleid Achilles,_ _Murderous and dark causing the Acheans such sorrows,_ _Sending so many gallant souls into Hades’ abode…_ ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/111 "2023-09-07T12:29:20Z")
> _As a soldier I must drink your blue water, live inside your red clay and eat your green skin. Help me to balance myself. As you hold in balance, the Earth, the sea, and the space environments. Help me to open my heart, knowing that the Universe will feed me. I pray my boots will always kiss your face, and my footsteps match your heartbeat. Carry my body through space and time. You’re my connection to the Universe and all that comes after. I’m yours and you are mine. I salute you._ ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/112 "2023-09-07T13:36:14Z")
Gee, maybe the Air Force can have someone recite “The Death of the Bull Turret Gunner.” ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/113 "2023-09-07T14:04:32Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Whatever is going on behind the scenes is Washington as usual but don’t give Tommy too much credit. He’s a moronic zealot. He didn’t have a grand scheme behind this other than playing to his anti-abortion base. Tuberville himself is saying it’s not just over abortion – it’s because a lot of officers are “too woke” > [@](#): > > At issue was [this social media thread](https://twitter.com/ExposingBiden/status/1693733071462318108) from something called the American Accountability Foundation, claiming that “the media” is trying to hide information about “one of the WOKEST slates of military nominees ever assembled.” What followed was 13 missives, slamming decorated U.S. military officers for, among other things, supporting “diversity, equity and inclusion” in the armed forces. > > When the American Accountability Foundation created [a follow-up thread](https://twitter.com/ExposingBiden/status/1694102556631298527), criticizing U.S. military leaders who applauded diversity among the ranks, Tuberville [directly endorsed the thread](https://twitter.com/SenTuberville/status/1694112666581643757), condemning “liberal and woke policies.” > > The right-wing senator’s position, in other words, is now fundamentally different. For the better part of 2023, the Alabama Republican said his principal concern was about travel reimbursements, not the career military leaders who’ve devoted their adult lives to service. Now, Tuberville is also taking rhetorical aim at the military leaders themselves. > > If other Senate Republicans have a problem with their colleague’s This doesn’t dispute your claim that Tuberville is no scholar – he’s endorsing arguments someone else made, not making them himself. But he’s got no problem expanding his objections beyond the military’s policies on medical travel to complaining about what he sees about the mindset and philosophy of those to be confirmed. > **[Tuberville changes his story, targets career military officials](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/tuberville-changes-story-targets-career-military-officials-rcna101375)** > > Tommy Tuberville's original goal was to scrap a specific benefit for U.S. troops. Now the GOP senator is targeting career military leaders themselves. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/114 "2023-09-07T14:04:42Z")
From today’s Roll Call, Schumer is insisting that Democrats will not force votes on individual officers but rather that it’s up to Senate Republicans to get Tuberville to back down: _Democratic leaders remain firmly against holding individual votes on any of the nominees, arguing that doing so would set a dangerous precedent. Senate Majority Leader Charles E. Schumer, said on Wednesday he would not allocate floor time to consider Brown’s nomination, even though nominations on such a senior level often get individual votes._ _“The bottom line is, this is a problem created by Republicans, and it’s up to them to solve it,” he told reporters. “We’re not going to shift the burden to Democrats.”_ > **[Democrats eye workarounds to Tuberville blockade - Roll Call](https://rollcall.com/2023/09/06/democrats-eye-workarounds-to-tuberville-blockade/)** > > Frustration builds in Senate as hundreds of senior military promotions remain in limbo over opposition to Pentagon's abortion policy ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/115 "2023-09-07T14:05:21Z")
Pence and de Santis are backing Tuberville up: > **[Tuberville picks up support from Republican presidential hopefuls](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/tuberville-picks-support-republican-presidential-hopefuls-rcna103822)** > > In military circles, Tommy Tuberville does not appear to be an especially popular person. But some Republican presidential candidates are on his side. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/116 "2023-09-07T14:09:07Z")
I seem to remember there is a precedent of a Senator who launched an ideological campaign against the Army and came off worst in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/117 "2023-09-07T14:24:08Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > From today’s Roll Call, Schumer is insisting that Democrats will not force votes on individual officers but rather that it’s up to Senate Republicans to get Tuberville to back down: Which tells me he thinks this situation is helping the Ds and hurting the Rs and is in no hurry to fix it. He might be right politically, but as a fan of a government that can function, I’d like him to get this done. Call a vote and beat this down once and for all. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/118 "2023-09-07T14:24:38Z")
> [@Daithi\_Lacha](#): > > Gee, maybe the Air Force can have someone recite “The Death of the Bull Turret Gunner.” Let’s hope Tuberville never sees this bunch of woke losers: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/TRZkS4fjpP0/maxresdefault.jpg "The Night of the Bayonet - Band of Brothers") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRZkS4fjpP0) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/119 "2023-09-08T15:15:54Z")
Maddowblog Comments on Tuberville’s condemnation of Poetry in the Military. Does this guy think all poetry is “woke” or “foppish” or “un-manly”? > **[To defend blockade, Tuberville points at ‘poems on aircraft carriers’](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/defend-blockade-tuberville-points-poems-aircraft-carriers-rcna104047)** > > Tommy Tuberville has tried and failed to defend his blockade on military promotions. His new line — complaining about Navy poetry — doesn't work, either. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571/120 "2023-09-08T16:11:34Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Tuberville himself is saying it’s not just over abortion – it’s because a lot of officers are “too woke” This is about Tuberville doing what his voters and donors want, which is to prevent Democrats from governing. Oh sure, the MAGAS would love to realize their maximalist aims regarding abortion and whatever “don’t woke” means. But if somehow that actually happened, they’d just move the goalposts somewhere else. Tuberville’s aim is to demonstrate that Democrats don’t govern if he has any say in the matter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-tuberville/987571.md?page=7)