# How do you start business letters? \*Dear Sir\* doesn't seem right anymore. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 9, 2002, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563 "2002-10-09T17:02:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/1 "2002-10-09T17:02:35Z")
Given the gender-specifc nature of the old fashioned “Dear Sir(s)” on business letters, which may well be to females as well as males, what is appropriate now for a salutation when you are writing to an unknown person or persons? And isn’t “dear” a little shopworn as well? I’ve used “People” or even “Dear People,” but it looks stupid. Any suggestions on salutations for the 21st century? * * * Geezer ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/2 "2002-10-09T17:07:09Z")
Did something happen to Dear Sir or Madam? That’s what I use. (Now I’ve got “Paperback Writer” stuck in my head.) ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/3 "2002-10-09T17:55:50Z")
I’m with cher on this one. 'Smatter with Dear Sir or Madame? ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/4 "2002-10-09T18:38:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JuanitaTech \* > \*\*I’m with cher on this one. 'Smatter with Dear Sir or Madame? \*\* Nothing wrong with it, except that it’s timeworn and lacks imagination. Why be so formal? Surely somebody has some ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/5 "2002-10-09T18:59:15Z")
Yo. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/6 "2002-10-09T19:00:45Z")
It’s a business letter, it’s supposed to be formal if you don’t know who you’re addressing. Obviously, addressing by name is best, but if you don’t know their name, formality is best, IMHO. StG ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/7 "2002-10-09T19:12:51Z")
1. Get the person’s name. With the Internet, this should be easy, but if not, then call the business and find out. Start it with “Dear Mr. Jones” or “Dear Ms. Jackson” (the best justification for “Ms”, since marital state is really none of your business in a case like this). 2. If #1 doesn’t work, then leave out the salutation. Just start the letter. No one will notice. One further drawback to “Dear Sir or Madam”: it means you haven’t done #1. You’re going to look bad compared to someone who was willing to do their homework. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/8 "2002-10-09T19:15:39Z")
Did someone put the kibosh on “To whom it may concern”? ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/9 "2002-10-09T19:36:54Z")
I like “To whom it may concern” when I wish to be formal, but I’m not trying to impress someone, such as filing a formal complaint. If I want to impress them or sound a little more personal, I still use “Dear Sir or Madame.” I’ve also left out the salutation completely, especially when I was unsure if the person to whom I’m writing is male or female. ---
**Author:** ![MisterThyristor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecccb3/32.png) [@MisterThyristor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MisterThyristor)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/10 "2002-10-09T20:24:42Z")
You can also use the person’s title if you are not sure of the name or gender: “Dear Employee Relations Manager”, for example. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/11 "2002-10-09T20:29:45Z")
I did a few minutes of research and found no real consensus. One site said to omit a salutation if you don’t know names and use a subject heading instead. Another suggested “To whom it may concern.” Two others, one British and one American suggested Dear Sir or Madam, but noted that it is considered to be the most conservative and formal option. ---
**Author:** ![japatlgt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@japatlgt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/japatlgt)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/12 "2002-10-09T20:35:11Z")
Dear Sir/Madam. Yes, the _Dear_ part is antiquated but that’s still what is most widely considered appropriate. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/13 "2002-10-09T23:56:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DesertGeezer \* > \*\*I’ve used “People” or even “Dear People,” but it looks stupid. Actually, it just makes you sound like a history teacher. I use “Dear Madam or Sir” now. It’s pretty stilted, but by switching the order from the standard “sir or madam” it makes it look just slightly different and fresh. Maybe you could make something like that work for you. The exception is when I’m starting the letter “Dear Phone Company Assholes.” That’s a pretty specific application, though. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/14 "2002-10-10T00:58:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JuanitaTech \* > I’m with cher on this one. 'Smatter with Dear Sir or Madam **e**? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DeadlyAccurate \* > I like “To whom it may concern” when I wish to be formal, but I’m not trying to impress someone, such as filing a formal complaint. If I want to impress them or sound a little more personal, I still use “Dear Sir or Madam **e**.” … With an e it’s French, so that might not give the desired effect, otherwise I’d say it was fine for a formal letter to someone you don’t know. **RealityChuck** has the right idea about checking the recipient’s details beforehand if you need the letter to be less formal. BTW, a personal hate of mine is when a person writes to me expecting an answer but doesn’t identify themselves enough to make a proper salutation for the reply: “Sincerely, J. Smith” John? Jennifer? Do they expect me to write back “Dear J. Smith”? ---
**Author:** ![fizgig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f04885/32.png) [@fizgig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fizgig)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/15 "2002-10-10T01:59:18Z")
Can I piggyback a question onto this thread instead of starting a new one? I’ll soon be writing statements of intent to PhD programs. Would Dear Sir or Madam still be appropriate when the letter recipient is a committee, rather than a single person (obviously I’m not going to list all the committee members’ names)? ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/16 "2002-10-10T03:51:10Z")
fizgig: If you know you’re addressing a committee, I’d address it to the committee. As in, “To the \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Committee at the \_\_\_\_\_\_ School of \_\_\_\_\_:” Just MHO of course. ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/17 "2002-10-10T04:46:37Z")
Formal: Dear Sir or Madame (singular receipient) Dear Sirs/Mesdames (plural receipient) My fav: Gentlepersons (Thanks, Edith!) ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/18 "2002-10-10T05:35:41Z")
I always use “Folks;” I find it disarming. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/19 "2002-10-10T06:26:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Paul in Saudi \* > \*\*I always use “Folks;” I find it disarming. \*\* How deliciously charming. 🆒 Very Will Rogersish, I would say. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563/20 "2002-10-10T06:55:22Z")
For someone with a name like **Desert Geezer** I would think **Dude** would work like a charm. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-start-business-letters-dear-sir-doesnt-seem-right-anymore/131563.md?page=2)