# How do you take an aircraft carrier out? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 27, 2003, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232 "2003-07-27T07:19:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/41 "2003-07-27T23:32:01Z")
**Ringo** , to answer the Marine Det question, IIRC, they were removed from ship and shore security in approximately 1987-88. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/42 "2003-07-28T01:12:36Z")
Later than that. I transferred from the USS CARL VINSON (CVN 70) in 1990 and, at the time I transferred, it still had a MARDET. I think the timeframe you mentioned, though, is when the phaseout began. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/43 "2003-07-28T01:48:20Z")
I’m still kinda hoping for an answer on this. Generally, what is included in a carrier battle group? Is it all surface ships or is there a sub or two as well? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/44 "2003-07-28T02:13:28Z")
Assuming you are the head of the former Soviet Union, you launch a mass attack by Tu-22 Backfire bombers using nuclear tipped antishipping missiles. Ideally, you get your initial targetting information from satellite recon, so the planes don’t have to expose themselves by searching with their own radar. You send the missiles into the general area, and the missiles either use their own radar, or home in on fleet transmissions, for terminal guidance. Repeat as necessary. The first attack or two might do nothing but deplete the anti-air missile supply of the battle group. If you can throw in enough missles, sooner or later one will get through. Of course, America knows where these bombers are based, and they might return home to flaming rubble and not be in any condition for future attacks. If this was the _first_ move in a general war, attacking an unsuspecting fleet, there would be an excellent chance of destroying the fleet. [Here is an overview of a typical battle group](http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/powerhouse/cvbg.html) ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/45 "2003-07-28T02:28:19Z")
Yes, the mortar idea would (most likely) not destroy a carrier, but it is on the fringes of do-able. As I said the real problem is hitting a moving carrier. You have to zap her in port. Perhaps a HUGE improvised naval mine laid in a shipping lane. Wait till she is right on top of it, moving into harbor along a very predictable route and then (somehow) detonate a couple of shipping containers of high explosives. Homemade torpedos may be a fantasy, but I could imagine a homemade mine of almost unlimited size. Heck, what about ramming her in port with something large that goes boom? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/46 "2003-07-28T03:05:12Z")
Hitting the carrier using its own transmissions probably won’t be all that workable if the carrier’s operating under radio silence. Hitting it with “something large that goes boom” didn’t sink the Cole. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/47 "2003-07-28T03:06:27Z")
p.s. The “something large” that hit the Cole was the explosive, not the rubber boat. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/48 "2003-07-28T04:24:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > **Hitting the carrier using its own transmissions probably won’t be all that workable if the carrier’s operating under radio silence.** Using the battlegroup’s transmissions for initial targeting won’t of course work, but once the battlegroup has gone active to engage incoming missiles it is a viable option. The heavy air launched anti-ship missiles carried by former Soviet long range bombers such as the Tu-16 and Tu-22 had anti-radar seekers as an option for guidance. [AS-5](http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/russia/as-5.htm) [AS-6](http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/russia/as-6.htm) The size of the warheads on these things (1,000kg) combined with a kinetic energy from a high speed terminal dive to punch through the deck make them quite effective carrier killers, with the provision that the bombers have to get past the Combat Air Patrol and the missiles have to get through the missiles from the carrier’s escorts. The best option for a nation to take out a US carrier would be through submarines. Not that they are a guaranteed success, but the cost of the large numbers of dedicated long range naval strike bombers needed to stand a reasonable shot at getting past the escort screen’s missiles isn’t in anyone’s defense budget nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krisfer_the_Cat)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/49 "2003-07-28T04:39:50Z")
I have NOT a damned thing useful to add to this discussion. But the first thing that popped into my head while reading the thread titles was “Buy it roses and dinner and see how it goes…” I really shouldn’t be out without adequate supervision… ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/50 "2003-07-28T05:06:35Z")
Sabotage seems like the only way a terrorist group could do the trick, perhaps by starting a fire in or near the jet fuel deposits or ammunition holds; the BIG BAD MINETM perhaps hid on a channel like the Panama or Suez channels; that would also have the benefical (???) side effect of obstructing the channels for a while. The homemade torpedoes could work too… ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/51 "2003-07-28T05:27:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Paul in Saudi \* > \*\*Homemade torpedos may be a fantasy… > \*\* [Don’t be too sure.](http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/) ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/52 "2003-07-28T06:02:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Whack-a-Mole \* > … Even in WWII with the Norton Bomb Sight … [Ralph Kramden] Norton? Noorrrton! [/Ralph Kramden] In the China cabinet at my friends’ home is what looks like an inverted punch bowl. It isn’t. It’s the canopy for a [**Norden**](http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/NordenBombSight.gif) Bomb Sight which his father helped develop. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/53 "2003-07-28T06:30:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ranchoth \* > \*\* > Of course…they could always try the 9/11 route. Get a few largeish airliners (buying, chartering, or leasing them would probably be easier than hijacking them), get as close to a “12 O’Clock High” position over the carrier as you can, then, then make a kamikaze dive at the carrier. \*\* ] The problem now is that everyone is on the lookout for hijacked planes, and it would probably be rather tough to get an airliner that close to the battle group before they start shooting at you(That would be a huge radar target, probably equivlent to a zeppelin as a visual target). Don’t large airlines have to file flight plans? Hypothecially, how easy would it be for that to happen nowadays(say, assuming chartered/purchased jets)? ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/54 "2003-07-28T06:33:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > \*\*Smuggle a concealed nerve agent bomb onboard during re-supply. > Detontates by timer, after the ship is a sea a week. > > A ship withoput a crew is a floating steel box. > > Use Anthrax instead of gas, & a crisis forms fast, & the ship can’t be readily contaminated. \*\* Of course, then there’s the risk of somebody seeing a strange object, questioning what it is, and then figuring out that it’s nerve gas. If you put it all in one place, it’s going to look more suspicious, and if you scatter it, there’s more of a chance of some crewman seeing it and asking about it. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/55 "2003-07-28T06:36:04Z")
Here’s what a WWII US Navy MarkXII -3 torpedo gyroscope looks like. It is an amazing job of machining. It will spin for minutes with a only a gentle push. [Pic1](http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cpeek001/pic1.jpg) [Pic2](http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cpeek001/pic2.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![MrGrizz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@MrGrizz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrGrizz)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/56 "2003-07-28T08:26:55Z")
HELLO!! Did anybody read that crazy article on supercavitating Rusky torpedos in speedos! That’s one water dildo I don’t wanna see on my next trip to the deep blue. But GEEZ guys, you waxe intelectual about anthrax and crazy balls terrorists using mortars to bombadue the ship and don’t even breathe a word about [THIS](http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/4/23/220813.shtml) article! :smack: Whack-a-mole, I want some mo’ of that sweet, informed speculation. I wanna see more WAGs than a kennel club dog show. Give it up for that “you talkin’ to me?” pedo with some serious attitude from the former commie campsite. DAMN, it’s all crazy! –J p.s. Thanks to **Jimmy** for the cite on the site. Night. ---
**Author:** ![BF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/57 "2003-07-28T11:53:26Z")
**asterion** , the general composion of a carrier group is: 2 guided missile cruisers 2-3 guided missile destroyers 2 destroyers 2 subs 1-2 frigates Of course, they can be smaller or larger, depending on the operational requirements. ---
**Author:** ![BF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/58 "2003-07-28T11:55:10Z")
Almost forgot to throw in an oiler and/or resupply ship. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/59 "2003-07-28T12:08:36Z")
What sank the Delgado during the falklands war? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/60 "2003-07-28T12:19:21Z")
Hit it with a giant mothball. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232.md?page=4)