# How do you take an aircraft carrier out? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 27, 2003, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232 "2003-07-27T07:19:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/61 "2003-07-28T13:12:23Z")
Concela some very large artillery pieces on boadd a container vessel (one of the thousands that ply the seas). Then make contact with the carrier task force…radio a distress call. While the carrier is stopping to assist you, haul out the guns-several 155 mm HE shells might be enought to start several fires on the carrier. of course,onceyou open fire, you are effectively gone-your first shots had betterhit! ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/62 "2003-07-28T14:10:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Paul in Saudi \* > \*\*As I said the real problem is hitting a moving carrier. You have to zap her in port. > \*\* I remember hearing about the incredibly long amount of time it takes to stop a super tanker (I think it needed about 30 miles stopping distance). How manoeuvrable is a carrier in comparison? Would it not be relatively easy to predict where it would be by the time the bomb/torpedo hit? ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/63 "2003-07-28T15:07:25Z")
I’ve seen two techniques presented in fiction. Tom Clancy in _Carrier_ closes his reference work on aircraft carrier history and hardware with a fictional near-future war in Southeast Asia. A carrier ( **not** an American Nimitz class, but an older British type, the name of which escapes me for the moment) is sunk by a salvo of precision guided bombs right through the flight deck. In _Nimitz Class_, I forget the author’s name, a Nimitz-class carrier is sunk by a nuclear torpedo fired from a submarine. Large parts of the plot hinge on pointing out that the techniques involved in getting that close to the carrier, and getting the sub in position, and getting the sub in the first place, required a rare combination of skill and daring. And a third approach… two years ago, I was in an info tech course. At one point, we had a guest lecturer talk to us about IT security as a major element. He described just this scenario: How to attack an American carrier. His answer was to attack the IT systems of the suppliers – in his example, by penetrating the manufacturing information systems of the soda manufacturer, identifying the batch of cola syrup destined for the carrier, and tainting that batch. He also noted that the soda manufacturer is well aware of its potential vulnerability, and was working to strengthen its systems. ObHumor: My first thought on reading the title was, “It helps if you’re a sexy guided-missile frigate.” ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/64 "2003-07-28T15:20:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bakhesh \* > I remember hearing about the incredibly long amount of time it takes to stop a super tanker (I think it needed about 30 miles stopping distance). How manoeuvrable is a carrier in comparison? Would it not be relatively easy to predict where it would be by the time the bomb/torpedo hit? > [@](#): > > Originally posted by China Guy > silkworm from 10 miles out should do the trick Both of these threats do not address the rest of the battlegroup. IIRC escorts (DDG,FFG,CG,ETC) covering the group are quite often that far if not further from the carrier. This gives the group a wider and heavily overlapped radar/sonar coverage area. Aircraft and or ships that could carry missles will often be detected and addressed hundreds of miles away. A US CVBG owns a lot of real estate in the middle of the ocean and pretty much nobody has the firepower to take it away easily right now. > [@](#): > > Mostly they’d waste whatever was on deck at the time and blow antennas off the superstructure. Well if you could wreck all the antenna arrays the carrier would be deaf, mute, and blind. I would imagine that they train for this as part of radio silence drills but it would take away the option of lighting up the radars to see whats coming. Of course, even in port its doubtful that a carrier is even close to alone. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/65 "2003-07-28T15:27:29Z")
Course, the simplest way is to drop a crowbar on it. From orbit. The old… was it “Thor” weapons system? Basically, a crowbar, a small rocket engine and steering fins and GPS. Aim, fire, big ol’ impact. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/66 "2003-07-28T17:26:22Z")
It’s unlikely that the carrier itself would be sent directly to assist another vessel in distress, that’s what escort vessels are for, and probably a helicopter would be sent first to find out what assistance is required, along with a damage control party. ---
**Author:** ![Tyler\_Do\_Urden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Tyler\_Do\_Urden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tyler_Do_Urden)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/67 "2003-07-28T17:54:45Z")
I actually have a unique perspective. My younger brother has been working for a defense contractor that designs interfaces for your various armaments as well as computer simulations and interactive databases. He’s working on “Project Nemesis”. As well as being the coolest project name ever, he’s beta testing a new computer simulator that the military wants. Just recently he’s been playing a carrier battle group, either defending or trying to sink it. He was telling me just how tough it is too do. Actually he couldn’t sink it. The support group was just too good. Nothing could get within firing range. Wow, I hope I don’t get shot for revealing military secrets. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/68 "2003-07-28T18:41:27Z")
Thinking aloud… If you’re insisting on destroying it, then there’s the nuclear-tipped torpedo mentioned above and, elsewhere in fiction I’ve read, there’s the suicide bomber with a nuke attacking it during a harbour visit. Another way to use a nuclear torpedo would be to fire it deep and have it explode deep underwater, creating a mass of bubbles. The bubbles rise and when they reach the surface, the carrier sinks because the aerated water can no longer support it. Released gas deposits are one theory of how the Bermuda Triangle got its reputation. Do it deep enough and in a plausible place and it might be thought a natural disaster. If disabling - perhaps for a limited time - the carrier suffices, then that’s a whole different story. You only need to stop it from being able to launch aircraft. Send a Stealth drone to drop concrete or something on the flight-deck. If your bombs are that accurate, target the catapults. BTW was it not HMS Conqueror that sank the Belgrano? ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/69 "2003-07-28T18:53:16Z")
I’d say one simply has to wait for the U.S.N. to [go back to Microsoft-controlled systems](http://www.gcn.com/archives/gcn/1998/july13/cov2.htm), then exploit any one of its millions of security holes to gain control of the aviation fuel storage tank pumps and the ship’s ventilation controls. Rupture the tanks, turn on the fans, and then sit back and wait for [Taiho II: Judgment Day](http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Aircraft_Carriers/CV_1944_Taiho_class/_Taiho_class.html). ---
**Author:** ![NFlanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@NFlanders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NFlanders)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/70 "2003-07-28T19:06:05Z")
Re: the Falklands I believe it was French-made Exocet missles that did all of the damage (one destroyer and one supply ship). Argentina had only five but they made them count. ---
**Author:** ![NFlanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@NFlanders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NFlanders)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/71 "2003-07-28T19:18:47Z")
Sorry. I thought you were referring to the British ships sunk by the Argentines. It seems to be more relevant since the British were the ones with the battle group. On the other side, the HMS Conqueror sunk the Belgrano with two torpedos. But the Belgrano was only a cruiser. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/72 "2003-07-28T23:32:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HPL \* > \*\*] > > The problem now is that everyone is on the lookout for hijacked planes, and it would probably be rather tough to get an airliner that close to the battle group before they start shooting at you(That would be a huge radar target, probably equivlent to a zeppelin as a visual target). > > Don’t large airlines have to file flight plans? Hypothecially, how easy would it be for that to happen nowadays(say, assuming chartered/purchased jets)? \*\* Do it when the ship is leaving/entering port. It moving slowly, unable to evade, weapons systems are shut down, and you have the added benefit of blocking the port. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/73 "2003-07-29T00:37:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ale \* > **Sabotage seems like the only way a terrorist group could do the trick, perhaps by starting a fire in or near the jet fuel deposits or ammunition holds** ; the BIG BAD MINETM perhaps hid on a channel like the Panama or Suez channels; that would also have the benefical (???) side effect of obstructing the channels for a while. > The homemade torpedoes could work too… You have to take into concideration the USS Forestall, she was stricken with a major fire , after some munitions went off ,while conducting combat flight ops. And that was a ship built in 56 , every new supercarrier to come off the ways,has this in mind ,when there fire suppression systems were designed. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/74 "2003-07-29T00:39:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E-Sabbath \* > \*\*Course, the simplest way is to drop a crowbar on it. From orbit. The old… was it “Thor” weapons system? Basically, a crowbar, a small rocket engine and steering fins and GPS. > > Aim, fire, big ol’ impact. \*\* The problem is finding the carrier, the russians spent over thirty years trying to figure out how to spot a carrier from orbit ,using all manner of sats. Its not easy, and only a national agency could even attempt to do that , in which case there is another 11 carriers ,plus probably three that can be built within 5 years. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/75 "2003-07-29T00:43:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ralph124c \* > \*\*Conceal some very large artillery pieces on board a container vessel (one of the thousands that ply the seas). Then make contact with the carrier task force…radio a distress call. While the carrier is stopping to assist you, haul out the guns-several 155 mm HE shells might be enought to start several fires on the carrier. of course,onceyou open fire, you are effectively gone-your first shots had betterhit! \*\* All carrier battlegroups have an exclusion zone ,just for this eventuality , and as some one mentioned earlier you will probably have an escort comin your way, when the CAP fighters cant see smoke commin out of your supertanker. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/76 "2003-07-29T22:02:19Z")
“You have to take into concideration the USS Forestall, she was stricken with a major fire , after some munitions went off ,while conducting combat flight ops.” Well, yes; but that fire took part on the hangars, not the fuel or ammunition deposits, if either of those catch fire it would be like, you know the second Big Bang. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232/77 "2003-07-29T22:32:05Z")
I don’t know why you guys are messing with anthrax and nerve agents. When I was in the navy, there was a much more easily obtainable substance that could incapacitate a ship’s company: San Miguel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-take-an-aircraft-carrier-out/191232.md?page=3)