# How do you view "invalids" in relation to society? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 30, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332 "2011-06-30T00:05:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/21 "2011-06-30T03:57:52Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I don’t think I’ve ever used the word “invalid” in English (rather, I’m using it here by the first time), but in Spanish “inválido” doesn’t mean either “the opposite of valid” or “requiring assistance” but “handicapped/disabled (either permanent or temporarily)”. If you’re missing a finger from one hand, that counts as invalidez (disability), even though it’s so mild it doesn’t even require acomodations for any jobs other than “Chinese shadows actor”. Since that appears to be the English definition as well, I think what you have an issue with is the dictionary. > > So my brain reads “invalid” as “has some sort of non-infectious medical condition (or an infection so bad they need assistance)”, not as “completely not-valid”. > **xoferew** , IIRC, Hawking’s current wife is a nurse. They met because she was his nurse (again, if I’m not mistaken). You think “my issue is with the dictionary”? Did you read the links I pasted on my previous posts? Do you say “my issue is with the dictionary” despite reading them? ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/22 "2011-06-30T04:09:36Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Addendum: OP, your problem reminds me of the one I have with words that English has borrowed from Spanish but completely changed their meaning. Some, such as _plaza_, don’t just have different meanings in both languages, but opposite ones (“big building” in English, “town square” in Spanish). You’d think that a word’s origins or construction will tell you what it means, right? Well, yeah - but not always. Invalid is from Latin and French, not Spanish. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/23 "2011-06-30T04:27:11Z")
Everyone contributes to society: mentally ill, paraplegic, autistic, deaf, smart, silly, stern, whatever. No one lived this life without affecting another. So I pretty much hate the word itself. I’d rather be an ‘invalid’ in a wheelchair than a chronic asshole. > [@](#): > > Definition of INVALID > : not valid: a : being without foundation or force in fact, truth, or law \ \ b : logically inconsequent > — in·val·id·ly adverb > Origin of INVALID > Latin invalidus weak, from in- + validus strong — more at valid > First Known Use: 1542 > **Rhymes with INVALID > corn salad** …just an FYI. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/24 "2011-06-30T04:29:03Z")
> [@Hades](#): > > Invalid is from Latin and French, not Spanish. …and some think Spanish is living Latin. Anyway, I think she was confused at the negative meaning of the term. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/25 "2011-06-30T04:35:15Z")
> [@Hades](#): > > Invalid is from Latin and French, not Spanish. Noooo shit! It still is made from in (meaning no) and valid (meaning useful), which is what I think the OP has a problem with. “Invalid” doesn’t mean “not valid” nowadays, even though at some point it did, same as the derived-from-Spanish English word “plaza” does not mean “a space between buildings” any more, even though at some point it did. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/26 "2011-06-30T04:45:50Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Noooo shit! > > It still is made from in (meaning no) and valid (meaning useful), which is what I think the OP has a problem with. “Invalid” doesn’t mean “not valid” nowadays, even though at some point it did, same as the derived-from-Spanish English word “plaza” does not mean “a space between buildings” any more, even though at some point it did. You conveniently bypassed my question Nava. THE issue (it’s not MY issue) is not the dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/27 "2011-06-30T04:48:22Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Noooo shit! > > It still is made from in (meaning no) and valid (meaning useful), which is what I think the OP has a problem with. “Invalid” doesn’t mean “not valid” nowadays, even though at some point it did, same as the derived-from-Spanish English word “plaza” does not mean “a space between buildings” any more, even though at some point it did. You said it was taken from Spanish, or at least that’s how I parsed your sentence. Your reply seems to indicate you didn’t mean it that way, but even rereading it with that in mind, it’s still unclear. I was curious enough to look up its etymology, and was trying to clear up the phrasing because I very seriously doubt I am the only person that read your post and, not having your latinate expertise, wasn’t sure exactly what you meant. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/28 "2011-06-30T04:59:27Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Or how about this… > [Redirect Notice](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FList_of_disability-related_terms_with_negative_connotations&ei=qeQLTsxmipS3B7uy7e0N&usg=AFQjCNGwCejRJPuAtaLXPFOaMRKylpaWng) How about that? “Invalid” wasn’t on that list of derogatory terms. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/29 "2011-06-30T05:10:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How about that? “Invalid” wasn’t on that list of derogatory terms. SMH, right. But you read my previous link didn’t you? This link is to show you that there indeed are words that are inherently, or over time or varying by culture, instilled with negative connotations. If you had read the entire text of the link, it says that the list shown there is by no means any “absolute” or official, set in stone list. These kinds of things are highly variable due to things LIKE culture, geography, time, etc. The previous link, the one that DOES refer to “invalid” as a derogatory term, goes into fairly specific detail as to why. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/30 "2011-06-30T05:20:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How about that? “Invalid” wasn’t on that list of derogatory terms. .. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/31 "2011-06-30T05:22:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How about that? “Invalid” wasn’t on that list of derogatory terms. > **[Redirect Notice](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDkQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bfi.org.uk%2Feducation%2Fteaching%2Fdisability%2Ffurther%2Fnegative.html&ei=6AYMTpz6GNS3twfe1d3xDQ&usg=AFQjCNEmJnBZB3zsVitj_2Oxn76VtXRCbw)** It took me all of 2seconds to find another list which DID include “invalid” :rolleyes: (because, as was pointed out, that previous list was by no means the official list) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/32 "2011-06-30T05:23:08Z")
> [@Hades](#): > > You said it was taken from Spanish, or at least that’s how I parsed your sentence. Your reply seems to indicate you didn’t mean it that way, but even rereading it with that in mind, it’s still unclear. Never meant it that way, and I don’t even know whether you’re talking about my first or second post. My first post was about my own mental process (English is my third language, with Spanish the first), my second one about the fact that words change meaning and may even end up meaning the exact opposite of what they started off as (another example is the Spanish word “lívido”, which started off as “dark purple” and nowadays means “pale”). ---
**Author:** ![koeeoaddi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/koeeoaddi/32/408_2.png) [@koeeoaddi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koeeoaddi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/33 "2011-06-30T05:24:57Z")
I associate the word with illness, not disability and I don’t think I use it at all without a ‘not an’ in front of it. I think it’s completely inappropriate for someone like Stephen Hawking or [**blinkie**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=539322), who may be paralyzed and dependent on others for care, but are otherwise fully engaged with the world. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/34 "2011-06-30T05:25:39Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > SMH, right. But you read my previous link didn’t you? This link is to show you that there indeed are words that are inherently, or over time or varying by culture, instilled with negative connotations. If you had read the entire text of the link, it says that the list shown there is by no means any “absolute” or official, set in stone list. These kinds of things are highly variable due to things LIKE culture, geography, time, etc. The previous link, the one that DOES refer to “invalid” as a derogatory term, goes into fairly specific detail as to why. I’m not too impressed with their “Ableist” word list-notice how they think that "in-ˈva-ləd"(adjective) is the same word as “\ˈin-və-ləd”(noun). While they have the same Latin root, they have two entirely different definitions. I think that you tend to confuse the definition of one word with the other. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/35 "2011-06-30T05:26:36Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I started this because numerous posters taking part in some of my discussions regarding disability-related issues referred to me as an “invalid” and viewed my subsequent offense at being called such a name as nothing more than my own personal issues/problems with my disability. This, to me, is indicative of a larger attitude or even belief-system (subconcious or not) of people in general towards those in wheelchairs. > **[Ableism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ableism)** > > Ableism (/ˈeɪbəlɪzəm/; also known as ablism, disablism (British English), anapirophobia, anapirism, and disability discrimination) is discrimination and social prejudice against physically or mentally disabled people. Ableism characterizes people as they are defined by their disabilities and it also classifies disabled people as people who are inferior to non-disabled people. On this basis, people are assigned or denied certain perceived abilities, skills, or character orientations. > There are st... ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/36 "2011-06-30T05:33:01Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > [Ableism - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ableism) Several different vague definitions of the word “ableist”, and an attempt to tie it in with the “Right To Die” movement, eugenics and Nazi Germany. There is a Wiki page that desperately needs some editing. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/37 "2011-06-30T05:40:12Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I’d rather be an ‘invalid’ in a wheelchair than a chronic asshole. What about a chronic asshole in a wheelchair? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/38 "2011-07-11T04:46:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Several different vague definitions of the word “ableist”, and an attempt to tie it in with the “Right To Die” movement, eugenics and Nazi Germany. There is a Wiki page that desperately needs some editing. Not to revive a dead thread, but I found this and I found it a particularly in-depth, well-spoken explanation of the complexity of ableism. It is put in much better terms than I ever could put it myself. [http://blog.fedcan.ca/2011/06/17/ableism-disability-studies-and-the-academy/](http://blog.fedcan.ca/2011/06/17/ableism-disability-studies-and-the-academy/) ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/39 "2011-07-11T11:31:20Z")
What I take from your lists is that someone with the best of intentions should just shut up and never speak to anyone because someone with the intention of degrading has ruined all words. Lets turn it around. When referring to the condition that causes you to require the use of a wheelchair - what should we say? And since everyone has a different view on what those words should be how can someone who doesn’t know you know that? Stop paying attention to the terms and look at the intent. When you’re doing that presume a positive intent when the intent is unclear. That way if they are being a jerk they look like a jerk instead of making you look like one. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332/40 "2011-07-11T12:20:57Z")
> [@](#): > > How do you view “invalids” in relation to society? I don’t. At all. In my thirty-something years on this planet, skimming through this thread is the most time I’ve spent thinking about it. I generally try not to be a dick to anyone (in real life, anyway), and spend my time thinking about more important things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-view-invalids-in-relation-to-society/587332.md?page=1)