# How does Amazon justify their huge infrastructure? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 28, 2024, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873 "2024-04-28T19:47:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/1 "2024-04-28T19:47:43Z")
There are numerous Amazon facilities just in the Cleveland area. Each one is the size of a large factory. One replaced a shopping center. They have acres of parking although I have never seen one even close to being full. Thousands of semis and delivery trucks. The latest delivery vans are a custom design with a dropped nose for visibility, really neat. And yet they barely charge for shipping. Most Amazon orders I have placed offer free shipping for a $25 order. Even without the free option it is cheap and fast. I can compare it to the McMaster-Carr facility nearby which is the largest seller of hardware and industrial supplies. Their service might be even faster. But it is expensive. And McMaster-Carr, Ebay or Sears never had their own fleet of delivery vans. I’m not sure about the over the road semis. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/2 "2024-04-28T19:54:55Z")
I have some thoughts on this but this is in FQ and I am not sure this can be answered in an FQ way unless an Amazon exec wants to chime in (unlikely). Maybe ask the mods to move this to IMHO. Or not…up to you. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/3 "2024-04-28T20:00:29Z")
Actually, I’m moving it to IMHO from FQ. I thought it was really FQ when I saw it then a flag came in and your post followed that. so I moved it. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/4 "2024-04-28T20:08:44Z")
The fleet of trucks allow for rapid delivery. That part is pretty clear. They’ve built up a large enough long hauler fleet now that they now offer freight movement for others to also to further support their own shipping and supply chain needs. The regional warehouses allow them to offer the quick delivery and combined with the shear volume, they end up having delivery routes the cover almost as much as the US Post office which means the smaller trucks and vans are going out to most neighborhoods now anyway and allows them to not lose money on their shipping policies. In denser areas, they now have so many trucks and warehouses, they offer a lot of products for same day delivery. It is quite amazing actually how far they’ve gotten already. Most of this boils down to scale and their scale of logistics is huge. Like no other company except USPS and UPS and those are pretty much just shippers. I missed this, Amazon actually passed UPS also. > **[UPS and FedEx are no longer the largest delivery companies in the US](https://nypost.com/2023/11/27/business/ups-and-fedex-are-no-longer-the-top-delivery-companies-in-the-us/)** > > Both UPS and FedEx have been eclipsed as the largest courier companies in the US by Amazon, which delivered more packages to US homes in recent years than both delivery giants. Amazon surpassed UPS… ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/5 "2024-04-28T20:11:30Z")
One of the biggest costs and headaches for delivery is known as the “last mile.” That is, getting the product from the warehouse to the store/customer’s home. It is complicated (see: [traveling salesman problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem)) and expensive. So, if Amazon can get warehouses closer to its customers the better for Amazon. Shipping to the warehouse is comparatively easier, simpler and cheaper (economies of scale…one big truck instead of 100 little trucks). As to the parking lot I am not sure. I know many cities have laws mandating the size of parking lots for commercial businesses which is why you see those vast and mostly empty parking lots all over suburbia. Maybe those laws apply to the warehouses too. Which would be silly but maybe the laws were just written too broadly so it is what Amazon does. Just my WAG on that. Here’s a good (if long at 30 minutes) video on the parking stupidity that talks about these laws and the mess they make: - [Parking Laws Are Strangling America | Climate Town](https://youtu.be/OUNXFHpUhu8) ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/6 "2024-04-28T20:16:29Z")
Amazon saves a lot of money by using the USPS or US Postal Service for small packages. Sometimes UPS of FedEx, but I have never had a delivery actually from Amazon. Never. Amazon has no delivery service that I am aware of. Amazon is milking the postal service for delivery, because they _have_ to deliver the mail, and if you are a US taxpayer, you are subsidising the Amazon delivery. Mail carriers are working their asses off for the same pay as they get for delivering junk mail. Smart move for Amazon. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/7 "2024-04-28T20:18:05Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > Amazon is milking the postal service for delivery, because they _have_ to deliver the mail, and if you are a US taxpayer, you are subsidising the Amazon delivery. The USPS is definitely not subsidized. They pay all their own bills from revenue they charge. That said, they are not a profit making entity like most companies so can keep rates lower. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/8 "2024-04-28T20:19:23Z")
Amazon comes to my neighborhood daily. It is very different in Central and Northern Jersey then your experience. Amazon has surpassed UPS & Fedex for delivery as the link in my post above shows. * * * * * * Also USPS being subsidized is best served in another thread. Please do not hijack this one. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/9 "2024-04-28T20:32:45Z")
I assume the parking lot at one of the Amazon warehouses has to have enough space or all of the employees who drive to work along with the delivery vehicles that are based there. And if you drive past while many of those delivery vehicles are making deliveries, you may see many open spaces. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47774/32.png) [@epbrown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/10 "2024-04-28T20:39:04Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > There are numerous Amazon facilities just in the Cleveland area. Each one is the size of a large factory. One replaced a shopping center. They have acres of parking although I have never seen one even close to being full. If the building is a Fulfillment Center, you have to account for Peak (November and December) when they hire hundreds of temps. My site hired off-duty police to direct traffic in the lots, they were so packed that time of year. The rest of the time the lots were 2/3 empty. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/11 "2024-04-28T20:41:59Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > In denser areas, they now have so many trucks and warehouses, they offer a lot of products for same day delivery. It is quite amazing actually how far they’ve gotten already. I think one reason they offer same-day delivery is to compete with the alternative; driving yourself to a local store to buy the same thing there. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/12 "2024-04-28T20:48:09Z")
Free shipping isn’t free. You’re paying for it as part of the cost of the product. If the product seems like a good price even when you consider the cost of shipping is coming out of the margin, then it means the originating supplier/manufacturer of the product is paying for it out of _their_ margin, as part of the privilege of having their product sold through Amazon. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/13 "2024-04-28T20:48:51Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > Amazon has no delivery service that I am aware of. The only possible answer to this statement is “What planet do you live on?” The blue Amazon delivery trucks are a several-time-per-day sight on my street. I also get Amazon packages from Amazon contractors (which is probably some “gig” job for them). ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/14 "2024-04-28T20:51:23Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > I have never had a delivery actually from Amazon. Never. Amazon has no delivery service that I am aware of. I get deliveries by Amazon drivers in Amazon delivery trucks several times a week. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/3CWCqJl0BEs/maxresdefault.jpg) ](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/3CWCqJl0BEs/maxresdefault.jpg) * * * * * * I don’t understand “justify” in the thread title. Their huge infrastructure sports their huge sales business. Am I missing something? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/15 "2024-04-28T20:51:44Z")
Not only their own delivery trucks but they also have their own tractor-trailer trucks and even their own cargo planes. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/16 "2024-04-28T21:03:31Z")
They do also route stuff through other carriers though, so I suppose it’s not unreasonable to imagine that @Dallas_Jones happens to live in a place where the balance is tipped fairly heavily in that direction, rather than another actual planet. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/17 "2024-04-28T21:07:51Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I assume the parking lot at one of the Amazon warehouses has to have enough space or all of the employees who drive to work along with the delivery vehicles that are based there. The number of parking spaces may well be mandated by the city. Most cities passed laws in the 1950s-60s requiring that businesses provide a certain number of parking spaces. It could be that the formula to determine how many spaces they’re required to have results in a number that doesn’t really make sense for a business like Amazon, because no one considered online businesses whey they wrote the law 60+ years ago, but they still have to follow the outdated law. Lately some cities have been relaxing the requirement that businesses provide parking, if the business is close to a public transit stop. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > …and even their own cargo planes. Well, sort of. The planes have Amazon’s logo on them, but officially Amazon charters them from various cargo airlines (mainly ABX Air, I think), who own the planes and operate them on Amazon’s behalf. Actually operating an airline themselves is a whole additional level of complexity I’m sure Amazon doesn’t want to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/18 "2024-04-28T21:13:20Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I don’t understand “justify” in the thread title. Their huge infrastructure sports their huge sales business. Am I missing something? “How do we justify it? VOLUME, VOLUME, VOLUME!” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/19 "2024-04-28T21:13:46Z")
I assume the parking lot requirements are different for a warehouse location, like most Amazon locations, than a retail location, where the general public might be expected to visit. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873/20 "2024-04-28T21:18:04Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > Amazon saves a lot of money by using the USPS or US Postal Service for small packages. Sometimes UPS of FedEx, but I have never had a delivery actually from Amazon. Never. Amazon has no delivery service that I am aware of. Where do you live? I also never receive deliveries from Amazon, but that is because I live in a rural area and I believe Amazon only delivers in cities and suburbs. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-amazon-justify-their-huge-infrastructure/1000873.md?page=2)