You are correct Tinker - I’ll move the thread to IMHO once I figure out how to do it.
Has Bush been “very open” about his cocaine use, or his AWOL record, IYHO?
Or how rich he’d be if his father’s friends hadn’t kept bailing him out of his mismanaged oil companies? Or how he got even richer from using the state’s eminent domain rights in the Arlington stadium deal?
We gotta hurry and get into this thread before it gets moved.
Oblong wrote:
Correct, and more importantly, in the context of the rest of the statement, it’s clear that Al Gore was referring to legislative initiatives that he was responsible for. His grammar may have been confusing, but the real meaning was not and it’s a very well documented fact that Al Gore did take initiative in sponsoring the creation of internet legislation.
From The Washington Post
Elvis- so either the Washington Post and CNN, who, according to the link you set up, say:
are both taking their information spoon-fed from Rush, or you’re being an ass. Tom Connolly handed a transcript and this story to the Fox reporter (yes, I was wrong about it being an ABC reporter. Since I read this morning part of Nightline’s “exclusive” interview with the reporter in question, I jumped to the incorrect conclusion that this reporter must also work for ABC, that’s how they got the exclusive).
You said:
It matters if the Democrats knew about this and sat on it in order to spring it out five days before the election. It certainly fits the pattern of the Clinton presidency where damaging information was gathered and then ‘leaked’ when someone began to become a threat (see: Kathleen Wiley).
Bush has A) already explained that he was an alcoholic and did stupid things as such and that B) he kept this information secret to avoid having to explain it to his daughters. As for preaching about morality and responsibility- I’d prefer the candidate who screwed up 24 years ago and prefers not to talk about it to the candidate who has been screwing up and around for the last eight years and pretending it doesn’t matter. But now we’re getting into GD territory.
You started this.
Don’t care about the coke. He never went AWOL(this has been covered in another thread). He’s made some bad business deals, but he’s also made a hell of a lot of good ones. I’m in Texas and lived in Arlington. You do realize that the Arlington Stadium deal was approved by us, the taxpayers, who were fully aware of what it meant?
While we’re on this topic. Has Gore been open about his illegal campaign contributions? Has Gore been open about his schooling past(i.e. the fact that he flunked out of divinity school due to drug use)? Has he been open about his opposition to previous tax cut attempts by the Republican congress that he now says he supports? Is he open about lie after lie he’s told, opting out simply by saying he must not have all the facts? No. He hasn’t. He takes responsibility for nothing and that’s not the kind of man I want. At least Bush had the balls last night to come out and say that, yeah, he screwed up, and he regrets what he did. He didn’t blame anybody. He didn’t seek pity. He took responsibility for his actions. Something I never expect Gore to do.
Damn. Board got screwed up and I missed it. Nice post, John.
One more thing while I’m thinking about it. Many people argue with me about the divinity school thing, because they’ve never heard it. Here’s a link. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/2000-03/19/233l-031900-idx.html
Mighty convenient not to care about his coke use, isn’t it? That lets Bush supporters ignore his refusal to come clean about it, and face the consequences of explaining the hypocrisy of supporting sending other kids to jail for what was, for him, a “learning experience”. You talk about Bush having the “balls” to admit screwing up - but he did keep it hidden, even from his own family, until it was forced out. That’s “balls” ??? That’s “taking responsibility” ??? Or is that another example of Republicans being allowed “youthful indiscretions” ?
If you actually voted in favor of taking people’s land at low prices, selling it for a huge profit, and giving Bush the profits, then shame on you.
All of the things you said about Gore’s past are true (albeit flunking out due to drug use is a little flimsy). But he has put all that out in public, himself, and is clearly a much bigger person now than he was then.
The campaign contributions stuff has been raked over so many coals that it’s pointless to go into further. If there were anything to it, don’t you think that the multiple GOP-led congressional investigations would have found it? I remind you, the only person caught in the wringer with Chinese funds was the chairman of the, um, er, Republican party, and they DIDN’t give it back, unlike the Democrats.
I’m not sure what tax plan you say Gore now supports - is that like the Texas patient’s bill of rights law that Bush vetoed, then let pass without his signature, and took credit for in the last debate?
I can keep this up until Election Day, but probably in another forum, I suspect.
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Excuse ME, Mister Moderator. I’ll let your errors of fact go unchallenged in the future.
It matters if the candidate who has been basing his campaign on a claim to superior morality won’t be public about his own. Whose fault is this, really - the Democrats for bringing it up (granting for the sake of argument that they did), or Bush for keeping it hidden instead of facing it?
Bush’s standard answer to all such questions is “I’ve learned and grown from my mistakes” - but has he ever talked about WHAT he’s learned, or HOW he’s grown? A mature person would be able to talk about it and put his embarrassment in perspective, but he simply stops there. What independent basis is there for thinking he has really learned about responsibility?
Yes, it DOES matter, for a guy asking us to trust him.
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Excuse ME, Mister Moderator. I’ll let your errors of fact go unchallenged in the future.
It matters if the candidate who has been basing his campaign on a claim to superior morality won’t be public about his own. Whose fault is this, really - the Democrats for bringing it up (granting for the sake of argument that they did), or Bush for keeping it hidden instead of facing it?
Bush’s standard answer to all such questions is “I’ve learned and grown from my mistakes” - but has he ever talked about WHAT he’s learned, or HOW he’s grown? A mature person would be able to talk about it, show us he really understands, and has a mature perspective on life now, but he simply stops there. That kind of answer is what one expects from a naughty schoolboy trying to convince the vice-principal not to give him detention.
This is a question of his responsibility, and, yes, his maturity. It DOES matter, for a guy asking us to trust him with the world’s most important job, doesn’t it?
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Excuse ME, Mister Moderator. I’ll let your errors of fact go unchallenged in the future.
It matters if the candidate who has been basing his campaign on a claim to superior morality won’t be public about his own. Whose fault is this, really - the Democrats’ for bringing it up (granting for the sake of argument that they did), or Bush’s for keeping it hidden?
Bush’s standard answer to all such questions is “I’ve learned and grown from my mistakes” - but has he ever talked about WHAT he’s learned, or HOW he’s grown? A mature person would be able to talk about it, show us he really understands, and has a mature perspective on life now, but he simply stops there. That kind of answer is what one expects from a naughty schoolboy trying to convince the vice-principal not to give him detention.
This is a question of his responsibility, and, yes, his maturity. It DOES matter, for a guy asking us to trust him with the world’s most important job, doesn’t it?
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Well, excuse me for correcting an error of fact.
It matters if the candidate who has been basing his campaign on a claim to superior morality won’t be public about his own. Whose fault is this, really - the Democrats’ for bringing it up (granting for the sake of argument that they did), or Bush’s for keeping it hidden?
Bush’s standard answer to all such questions is “I’ve learned and grown from my mistakes” - but has he ever talked about WHAT he’s learned, or HOW he’s grown? A mature person would be able to talk about it, show us he really understands, and has a mature perspective on life now, but he simply stops there. That kind of answer is what one expects from a naughty schoolboy trying to convince the vice-principal not to give him detention.
This is a question of his responsibility, and, yes, his maturity. If a guy is asking us to trust him with the world’s most important job, it damned well DOES matter.
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Well, excuse me for correcting an error of fact.
It matters if the candidate who has been basing his campaign on a claim to superior morality won’t be public about his own. Even if the Democrats brought this up, whose fault is worse - theirs for bringing it up, or Bush’s for it being true and hiding it?
Bush’s standard answer to all such questions is “I’ve learned and grown from my mistakes” - but has he ever talked about WHAT he’s learned, or HOW he’s grown? A mature person would be able to talk about it, show us he really understands, and has a mature perspective on life now, but he simply stops there. That kind of answer is what one expects from a naughty schoolboy trying to convince the vice-principal not to give him detention.
This is a question of his responsibility, and, yes, his maturity. If a guy is asking us to trust him with the world’s most important job, it damned well DOES matter.
Heheh – I kept getting that cute little hourglass, and I didn’t think this last post was going through.
Sorry, folks - see you in the other forum.
I can hang right in there with you.
Since there’s already a Great Debates thread on the OP (and most of the tangential issues raised here), I’ll close this thread.
I fucking hate election season.