# How does choosing a military job then getting hurt doing your job make you a "hero"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522 "2012-11-19T18:19:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Atakapa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Atakapa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atakapa)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/41 "2012-11-19T21:09:22Z")
I wouldn’t consider just the act of being in a military force to be “heroic.” By that logic, both the Polish conscript defending his homeland and the Wehrmacht invading it were heroes. Hundreds of millions of people have been in military forces throughout history, for causes and factions of both solid and questionable virtue. Neither is getting your leg blown off by an booby-trap, being shot, or taking a hit from an RPG - that’s just being exceptionally unlucky. If you perform an action far above and beyond the expectations and duties of your job, with exceptional courage and risk to oneself, then you are a hero. Being the poor bastard who had a bullet with his name on it is tragic, not heroic. Frankly, I’m rather wary of the popular movements that call every last REMF a “hero.” It’s an easy way to shut down criticism and close examination of the military and its activities, as could be seen particularly clearly during the early years of the Iraq War. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/42 "2012-11-19T21:22:51Z")
> [@Snow\_Pea](#): > > Now of course I’m sympathetic to anyone who gets hurt on the job, but if a guy loses his leg in a logging accident in Alaska, folks aren’t going to gush about what a “hero” he is. These veterans choose to join the military, decided the risks were worth the paycheck and chose to take the job. Some get hurt on the job, come home and boom - instant “hero” status for life. You don’t see a difference between: (a) Working for a commercial company in a job that you can quit anytime without criminal outcome that is regulated by OSHA and other agencies to reduce the likelihood of death or injury… and (b) Signing up to military service where walking off the job is going AWOL and there are actual people (multiple, some times large numbers of people) shooting at you with the intention of killing you. Oh, and they also use rockets and IED and what ever else they can come up with. Oh, and there isn’t any OSHA… because death is an accepted part of the job. When someone signs up for military service, for the entire time that they’re in the states, they can avoid combat by simply going AWOL or mentally cracking up. Once they’re overseas, they can still crack up mentally and get out of there. Unless you’ve ever spent time in or near a combat zone, you really can’t comprehend the stress involved in going to sleep at night knowing that you’re well within range of scud missiles. Unless you’ve worked as law enforcement or in a combat zone, you can’t comprehend what it is like to walk down the middle of a street where anyone could be waiting to shoot at you from any window. There is no way that a person could fully grasp these things before signing up. And some (many?) can’t handle it once they’re there and they do crack up. So, I think the ones that stick it out and manage to get most of themselves home deserve some credit. It is not up to them who or why they fight, that is part of the job description. If you want to complain about the incentive for combat, take that up with the politicians. But, I do agree that hero is thrown around too much. I cringe every time they refer to the people working in the towers on 9/11 as heroes. not a single one of those people went into work knowing that those buildings would be hit. The VFD and PD who responded… they are heroes. But not the victims who were simply earning a pay check like any other day and happened to get snuffed. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/43 "2012-11-19T21:48:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Excuse me, but signing a one-sided contract of that nature before you have enough experience and knowledge to understand what it entails, then blindly following any and all orders given, doesn’t automatically make you a “hero”. No, the nifty uniform does. ---
**Author:** ![GreenHell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ea666f/32.png) [@GreenHell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenHell)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/44 "2012-11-20T00:55:32Z")
You have to understand the situation in the United States. The U.S. economy comprises 25% of global wealth and its people 5% of the world’s population. But, the U.S. accounts for nearly half of global “defense” spending. Its PR and official stance is that democracy, free markets and personal freedom are supreme values. But, it also has a long history of propping up dictators, stirring up war and overthrowing representative democracies. Soldiers have a dangerous job, though not as dangerous as linemen, construction workers, miners, fishermen, commercial divers and similar trades. However, those people all feed, build and power America. The benefit they provide the country, in both economic and quality of life terms, is indisputable. Not so with the endless wars and occupations our service members take part in. So the soldiers HAVE to be touted as heroes. In order both to deflect criticism as to how they are used and to justify the grossly bloated state of the armed forces in general. To paint them any other way is equated with a lack of patriotism. Even to question it is attacked as being immoral. Could someone demonstrate that for me, oh, yes . . . thanks. People doing real, productive work don’t have to be called heroes. The value of their endeavors is easily demonstrated. And I can say that, as a vet. I’m a hero, bitches. ---
**Author:** ![Scholar\_Beardpig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Scholar\_Beardpig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scholar_Beardpig)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/45 "2012-11-20T01:36:06Z")
> [@GreenHell](#): > > You have to understand the situation in the United States. The U.S. economy comprises 25% of global wealth and its people 5% of the world’s population. But, the U.S. accounts for nearly half of global “defense” spending. Its PR and official stance is that democracy, free markets and personal freedom are supreme values. But, it also has a long history of propping up dictators, stirring up war and overthrowing representative democracies. > > Soldiers have a dangerous job, though not as dangerous as linemen, construction workers, miners, fishermen, commercial divers and similar trades. However, those people all feed, build and power America. The benefit they provide the country, in both economic and quality of life terms, is indisputable. Not so with the endless wars and occupations our service members take part in. > > So the soldiers HAVE to be touted as heroes. In order both to deflect criticism as to how they are used and to justify the grossly bloated state of the armed forces in general. To paint them any other way is equated with a lack of patriotism. Even to question it is attacked as being immoral. Could someone demonstrate that for me, oh, yes . . . thanks. People doing real, productive work don’t have to be called heroes. The value of their endeavors is easily demonstrated. > > And I can say that, as a vet. I’m a hero, bitches. Ka-bang. I love hearing this sort of thing; I think the unreasoning awe and worship that Americans are supposed to feel for veterans and the military system is one of the greatest flaws in modern American culture, and I’m glad to hear someone on the inside show the same opinion. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/46 "2012-11-20T01:44:47Z")
> [@GreenHell](#): > > You have to understand the situation in the United States. The U.S. economy comprises 25% of global wealth and its people 5% of the world’s population. But, the U.S. accounts for nearly half of global “defense” spending. Its PR and official stance is that democracy, free markets and personal freedom are supreme values. But, it also has a long history of propping up dictators, stirring up war and overthrowing representative democracies. > > Soldiers have a dangerous job, though not as dangerous as linemen, construction workers, miners, fishermen, commercial divers and similar trades. However, those people all feed, build and power America. The benefit they provide the country, in both economic and quality of life terms, is indisputable. Not so with the endless wars and occupations our service members take part in. > > So the soldiers HAVE to be touted as heroes. In order both to deflect criticism as to how they are used and to justify the grossly bloated state of the armed forces in general. To paint them any other way is equated with a lack of patriotism. Even to question it is attacked as being immoral. Could someone demonstrate that for me, oh, yes . . . thanks. People doing real, productive work don’t have to be called heroes. The value of their endeavors is easily demonstrated. > > And I can say that, as a vet. I’m a hero, bitches. That was awesome, even the bits I didn’t agree with. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/47 "2012-11-20T01:58:43Z")
My own take is that being willing to sacrifice one’s life for others is heroic. The D-Day invaders- definitely heroes. Pacific fighters in WW II, ditto. Wars we have no business being in, not so much. Sure, they would lay down their lives for us- that makes them worthy of our respect. But the lack of threat posed to us by Iraq or Vietnam makes the mission not heroic at all. I’m all for giving them the best medical care and a free education and support for their families and tax breaks and employment preference. But the constant verbal fellation that some feel compelled to give the troops makes me want to vomit. ---
**Author:** ![Snow\_Pea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Snow\_Pea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snow_Pea)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/48 "2012-11-20T04:05:21Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I think you may be missing something. 🆒 Which is…what, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Snow\_Pea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Snow\_Pea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snow_Pea)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/49 "2012-11-20T04:56:29Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > let’s say they ALL join for why you think–because they **hate their bodies** and don’t want a very big paycheck. Umm, what? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/50 "2012-11-20T06:51:26Z")
> [@Snow\_Pea](#): > > Umm, what? 😕 _starts thread about people’s bodies being damaged in combat_ _argues people are somehow willing to sacrifice damage to their corporeal self out of **boredom** _ _forgets we’re talking about people damaging their body_ ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/51 "2012-11-20T10:31:07Z")
It doesn’t. Enlisted soldiers are not heroes. They’re the exact opposite of what a hero should be, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/52 "2012-11-20T10:51:54Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > how does getting hurt in the service of your country, doing a job you signed up for because you want to physically put yourself in danger for the ideals you believe represent the very core of American values and interests? why would anyone think it’s heroic to step into a long history of patriots who fought for the freedoms we feel entitled to–like the freedom to be a dumbass on internet forums–when that person’s life is altered forever due to injury in that line of duty? when they will never be emotionally the same again. when they’ll never be physically capable again. when their lives are shattered and they cannot get a good job…and they do it all for paltry money because it’s never about the money, ever, with them. it’s about the ideals and values. > > why oh why would anyone appreciate that? because i mean, chopping wood–totally the same value. I’d find this line of reasoning much more valuable if it wasn’t completely obvious to any observer that no war that the US has been in in the last 20 years has actually _been_ fighting to protect American interests. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/53 "2012-11-20T11:40:17Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I’d find this line of reasoning much more valuable if it wasn’t completely obvious to any observer that no war that the US has been in in the last 20 years has actually _been_ fighting to protect American interests. Bingo. Troops in Iraq were not “fighting for our freedom”. They were on a fool’s errand. ---
**Author:** ![StJoan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@StJoan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StJoan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/54 "2012-11-20T14:24:33Z")
Heroism is the sugar coating we give to a job that is most likely to give you life long post traumatic disorder, at the very least, and a missing limb or two (or worse) at the very most. Having a shredded body and psyche appeals to no one, but cover it with the glittering shroud of heroism; et voila, you da man! Well, that’s my take on it, but \*\*GreenHell \*\*said it better… ---
**Author:** ![ed\_anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@ed\_anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed_anger)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/55 "2012-11-20T14:26:19Z")
> [@StJoan](#): > > Heroism is the sugar coating we give to a job that is most likely to give you life long post traumatic disorder thus all heroes should get free access to MDMA: [http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/20/health/ecstasy-treatment-for-post-traumatic-stress-shows-promise.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/20/health/ecstasy-treatment-for-post-traumatic-stress-shows-promise.html)? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/56 "2012-11-20T14:34:37Z")
> [@GreenHell](#): > > You have to understand the situation in the United States…And I can say that, as a vet. I’m a hero, bitches. Exactly right. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/57 "2012-11-20T14:44:22Z")
Jeepers, now I have _One_ running through my head… ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/58 "2012-11-20T14:50:51Z")
I think it actually hurts the US. In the last decade the US military and naval forces have been unable to bend two small nations to their will a massive failure on their part with great repercussions for the US, and yet no one seems willing to undertake the necessary introspection. Post Vietnam tins was done, to great success. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/59 "2012-11-20T16:50:25Z")
> [@GreenHell](#): > > And I can say that, as a vet. I’m a hero, bitches. Absolutely. I’m a vet too, and I’m vastly prouder of the work I do now as an electrical engineer than I ever was as a missile systems technician in Iraq. I make electric power safer, more reliable and more economical. There are old people who won’t die this summer because the work I did means they can afford to run the air conditioning. But you’re right. Nobody needs to call me a hero because I know exactly what I do. Soldiers need smoke blown up their asses because “Vehicle maintenance, PT and combat training” isn’t really much to be proud of. The most I can say about being in the Army is that I worked on the same type of system that killed Uday and Qusay Hussein. And I don’t like to think about it, but some Bradleys and TOW missile systems I worked on probably killed a few innocent Iraqis circa 2003-2004. And frankly, getting standing ovations in the airport didn’t boost my morale one bit. ---
**Author:** ![Snow\_Pea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Snow\_Pea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snow_Pea)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522/60 "2012-11-20T17:49:27Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > _starts thread about people’s bodies being damaged in combat_ > _argues people are somehow willing to sacrifice damage to their corporeal self out of **boredom** _ > > _forgets we’re talking about people damaging their body_ Again…what??? 😕 Your post is gibberish. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-choosing-a-military-job-then-getting-hurt-doing-your-job-make-you-a-hero/641522.md?page=4)