# How does Greyhound stay in business? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 31, 2021, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100 "2021-03-31T18:33:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/21 "2021-03-31T21:28:03Z")
One other point for long-haul buses: As of when I moved out to Montana, at least (1999), Greyhound allowed up to five pieces of luggage per passenger, at no additional cost above the cost of the ticket. And the maximum size for a piece of luggage was quite a large box (like, 8 cubic feet). For carrying me plus everything I was moving with, that deal couldn’t be beat. Though, yes, it was a pretty long and miserable ride. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/22 "2021-03-31T21:28:04Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > I took the train from DC to New York. Would I have saved much time or money taking the bus? Probably not; Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor trains (from DC to New York, then to Boston) are fast, fairly inexpensive (it looks like a one-way ticket is like $29 for economy, and $70 or so for business class), and represent the one part of the U.S. where intercity passenger trains currently are a good alternative to airlines, much less buses. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/23 "2021-03-31T21:32:28Z")
> [@Acierocolotl](#): > > Buses were one of the only ways to go from one small Ontario town to another. Same for California. I needed to get from one small town with only a light plane airport to another. I would have had to drive 30-60 minutes each end (assuming no traffic, and since one end would have been LAX, _always_ assume traffic) and the bus was right there within walking distance. Sure it took longer, but I like to read. It also was cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/24 "2021-03-31T21:36:03Z")
Bus was considerably cheaper for me. Maybe because it was a last minute thing. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/25 "2021-03-31T21:38:21Z")
Also, regarding DC-NYC: the train takes about three hours; a Greyhound bus takes between five and six-plus, depending on which particular bus you wind up on (I’m looking at Greyhound’s schedule, so I suspect different buses are taking slightly different routes, or they’re baking in rush hour delays). So, you definitely wouldn’t be saving any time that way. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/26 "2021-03-31T23:10:40Z")
Back in the day (okay, back in the mists of history, I’m old), Greyhound had some Unlimited Rides For A Month fares. I knew people who vacationed out west that way. Even longer ago, Amtrak did, too, but I assume those days are long gone… ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/27 "2021-03-31T23:15:10Z")
See the [El Cheapo Airlines thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-jetstar-budget-domestic-airline-in-aus-fuck-you/939012/11) for a Greyhound/Amtrak tangent… My contribution, which speaks to “Why would people take the bus?”: > If you want to really see the country instead of flying over it (or driving past on a freeway), Greyhound or Amtrak is the way to go. > > Even before Covid, I was trying to avoid planes (and the demeaning TSA/check-in/seating experience) , and trying not to put any more money in airlines’ pockets. I even turned down far-flung conferences in favor of ones I could drive to. > > But I’ve found that when I drive, I don’t get to just stare out the window like I’d prefer, AND the quickest route is _around_ cities on generic-looking freeways. > > But bus and train stations are often in the more colorful parts of town… or at least the more industrial (in which case the color is rust). I loved taking the train cross-country and seeing a lot of cities “from the backside”. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/28 "2021-03-31T23:22:36Z")
Here in Canada, I’ve long held the view of a very clear three-level hierarchy of transportation costs: 1. Air 2. Train 3. Bus It’s still true today AFAIK, although the long-distance train options have severely diminished. **[But they still exist.](https://www.viarail.ca/en/fares-and-packages/rail-passes/canada-pass)** ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2021, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/29 "2021-03-31T23:25:26Z")
Amtrak still has something sorta kinda like that, the [USA Rail Pass](https://www.amtrak.com/take-the-trains-across-america-with-usa-rail-pass). It’s not unlimited rides, but it will let you ride a certain number of segments for a fixed fare, even some lengthy segments. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/30 "2021-04-01T00:27:25Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Amtrak has a decent network of buses that can be combined with train trips, and a lot of these mirror Greyhound routes, but you must have a train leg in order to take the Amtrak bus (in most, but not all cases). I think some routes/trips are bus only and you can’t get a train leg even if you want it. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/31 "2021-04-01T00:39:04Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > I think some routes/trips are bus only and you can’t get a train leg even if you want it. Indeed. If, for example, you go onto Amtrak’s web site, and book a trip from Chicago to Green Bay, you can do so, but what you’re really doing is taking the train from Chicago to Milwaukee, and then a bus from Milwaukee to Green Bay; there is no passenger train service to Green Bay (and there hasn’t been since the 1970s, or even a bit before). ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/32 "2021-04-01T00:42:01Z")
I think he means you have to book the bus in conjunction with a train leg: e.g., I am riding the train from X to Y and then taking the bus to Z. You aren’t allowed to book the Amtrak bus from Y to Z without that first leg. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/33 "2021-04-01T00:42:49Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > I think he means you have to book the bus in conjunction with a train leg: e.g., I am riding the train from X to Y and then taking the bus to Z. You aren’t allowed to book the Amtrak bus from Y to Z without that first leg I don’t think so. If you book a trip from downtown Milwaukee to Green Bay on Amtrak only a bus trip is available. No train service. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/34 "2021-04-01T00:50:19Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > I think he means you have to book the bus in conjunction with a train leg: e.g., I am riding the train from X to Y and then taking the bus to Z. You aren’t allowed to book the Amtrak bus from Y to Z without that first leg. Yes, this is what I meant. However, in some areas the Amtrak bus is the only public transportation into or out of town (the bus is passing between larger destinations), so they will allow bus-only trips. I am sure there are more exceptions like GB-Milwaukee, depending on what they have worked out. In CA, where I have combined train and bus, a train leg is required (per my example, bus from SLO to San Jose, and then train to Sacramento, or Sacramento to Santa Rosa). However, looking into Greyhound for the same trip, it is much worse time-wise. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/35 "2021-04-01T00:59:34Z")
Around here it’s very simple. Greyhound lists 21 destinations in Missouri (and there’s at least one I know if that isn’t listed.) Amtrak stops at 12. Airlines serve seven cities. Bus service is the only public transportation that serves places like Fort Leonard Wood in the Ozarks. There’s no train service and no direct air service between St. Louis or Kansas City, and Springfield - Missouri’s third largest city. Greyhound gets plenty of business going to places nobody even thinks about. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/36 "2021-04-01T01:02:12Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > I think he means you have to book the bus in conjunction with a train leg: e.g., I am riding the train from X to Y and then taking the bus to Z. You aren’t allowed to book the Amtrak bus from Y to Z without that first leg. Yeah, as I understand it bus companies like Greyhound lobbied for that rule, because they argued that since Amtrak receives federal subsidies it would be unfair competition if bus-only trips on Amtrak were allowed. There are probably some exceptions in places where the Amtrak bus is literally the only public transportation link. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/37 "2021-04-01T01:36:36Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > However, there was a brief period of time, when I was regularly taking that bus, in which flying was almost as cheap. For about six months, around 1985 or so, United offered tremendously cheap tickets on that route – the plane was going from Denver to Green Bay (and back again), with a stop in Madison, so they were just trying to sell seats to fill what would otherwise be a mostly-empty plane, and a round trip was around $35. There was/is an extensive program called > **[Essential Air Service](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_Air_Service)** > > Essential Air Service (EAS) is a U.S. government program enacted to guarantee that small communities in the United States, which had been served by certificated airlines prior to deregulation in 1978, maintained commercial service. Its aim is to maintain a minimal level of scheduled air service to these communities that otherwise would not be profitable. The program is codified at 49 U.S.C. §§ 41731–41748. > The United States Department of Transportation (USDOT) subsidizes airlines to serve commu... Nowadays it seems to be bigger in dollars, but is providing ever less service and to ever-smaller locations. Serious rural bring-home-the-baconing. We used to do lots of those sorts of flights where we flew a jet from the hub to City X with decent loads, then continued to City Y with minimal loads. The Feds were paying us a profitable price to do X to Y (and vice versa service) so we were happy to run a 150-170 passenger jet with 10 people on it. All the passenger fares were free money. My personal favorite was {hub} to Colorado Springs (COS) to Pueblo (PUB) and back. PUB was about 45 road miles and about 40 air miles from COS. The terrain elevation there was about 5,000 ft. We’d take off in a 727 going southbound out of COS, climb to 10,000 above sea level (~=5,000 above the high prairie) where there are no speed limits, crank it up to max speed ~425mph, and get from top of climb to beginning of descent into PUB in about 4 minutes flat. Haul ass up to near the PUB airport, slam on the brakes, and land straight in going south. 40 miles at about 5 miles a minute average. 8 minutes liftoff to touchdown. Disgorge our 10 pax, engorge a different 10, and head back the other way. With the usual prevailing winds from the south, it’d take an extra 10-15 minutes going the other way just because of the need to launch southbound, turn around and go north of COS, then turn around again and go southbound to land. Ahh, the good old days! Nowadays the vast majority of EAS flying s done by the RJs under the {Whatever} Express brand name. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/38 "2021-04-01T01:43:31Z")
Greyhound buses used to be considerably cheaper than airplanes. Between 1975 and 1981, I took several trips around the U.S. (and a bit of Canada). Each time I bought a 30-day pass, which paid for everything (except for any food I ate on the trip, of course). I got used to sleeping on buses. Each time I traveled in a vaguely circular path hitting a lot of the U.S. Each time I stopped for several days at various places in the route. I visited friends or relatives at those places or went to conferences or conventions. This is why at the end of my time in college and graduate school I had visited 44 states and 2 provinces. (I have only visited 2 more states since then.) This was vastly cheaper than what it would have cost me to fly between the places where I stopped during those routes. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/39 "2021-04-01T01:50:16Z")
Many major airlines sell an all-you-can-eat monthly pass too. But it’s Hella expensive. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100/40 "2021-04-01T02:01:21Z")
There must be some break-even point for that. I once sat next to a plastic surgeon who flew between L.A. and San Francisco at least three times per week. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-greyhound-stay-in-business/939100.md?page=3)