# How does illegal downloading work? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 7, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051 "2010-02-07T18:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/1 "2010-02-07T18:47:52Z")
I’m asking about torrents specifically and in the most academic sense. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/2 "2010-02-07T18:50:41Z")
Not all Bittorrent downloading is illegal. I don’t think it should be defined using the term ‘illegal downloading’ as if the word ‘illegal’ defines the technology being used. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/3 "2010-02-07T19:00:54Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I’m asking about torrents specifically and in the most academic sense. Say you want to see a movie. Rather than going to the store and paying for it, you open up the Torrent client on your desktop, search for the movie on a Torrent finder website, click on it to start the download, and anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours later you have a complete movie that you did not pay for and did not have permission to download. You have just stolen intellectual property by not properly compensating the owners. It’s really that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/4 "2010-02-07T19:03:49Z")
To steal means to take possession of. You haven’t taken possession of something from its rightful owner. You have cloned it. Made a copy of it. I’m not condoning it. Just saying it’s not the same as stealing someone’s guitar or their painting. Not by a long way. ---
**Author:** ![BorgHunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@BorgHunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BorgHunter)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/5 "2010-02-07T19:06:38Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > To steal means to take possession of. You haven’t taken possession of something from its rightful owner. You have cloned it. Made a copy of it. > > I’m not condoning it. Just saying it’s not the same as stealing someone’s guitar or their painting. Not by a long way. To be more specific, theft involves deprivation, specifically the intent to deprive a property owner of his property. Copyright infringement, such as pirating music, movies, etc., does not deprive the property owner of the use and enjoyment of his property, and so is not theft. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/6 "2010-02-07T19:10:20Z")
In my very limited experience with torrents, it’s almost exactly like unzipping a zipped file. You download a compressed file and use the torrent program to fully open it. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/7 "2010-02-07T19:10:41Z")
But…but…but…someone might have wanted to pay money for that copy! ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/8 "2010-02-07T19:13:17Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Say you want to see a movie. Rather than going to the store and paying for it, you open up the Torrent client on your desktop, search for the movie on a Torrent finder website, click on it to start the download, and anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours later you have a complete movie that you did not pay for and did not have permission to download. You have just stolen intellectual property by not properly compensating the owners. I’d say that’s actually inaccurate. What you’re searching for and download directly first is a file that merely identifies the file you’re looking for; usually only a few kb large. Your torrent client then uses that file to query everyone else’s computer who have that or a similar torrent client, and downloads the file you actually want from all of those people who have that file avaliable. Think of it like this. Imagine I write a post on here asking for a book. One of my friends decides to give me the text by typing it up in many posts. This takes a long time, and is reliant on my friend carrying on doing it; he might stop partway through, or be banned, or something else to stop him. And then I can’t get it at all. That’s direct downloading. Now imagine instead that I ask many people to send me the book. I have to make a post first telling everyone exactly the book I want. And again i’m reliant on them posting it; but, because there are many people posting, they can do the work in much shorter time (for example, while Friend 1 is typing up Chapter 1, Friend 2 can be typing up Chapter 2, and so on). And if one friend drops out, I can get another friend to take over for him. And i’m not reliant on one person having all the book; if someone only has parts of it, they can still help contribute to the whole - and because i’m getting parts of it at once, I too can share what I have so far with those others who might want it. That’s torrenting. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/9 "2010-02-07T19:25:30Z")
Music downloading isn’t illegal in Canada (yet). I’ll start paying for music from the internet once I’ve made up for all the records, tapes, and CDs I’ve bought over the years that had one or two good songs and eight fillers. I’m not there yet. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/10 "2010-02-07T19:29:39Z")
> [@BorgHunter](#): > > To be more specific, theft involves deprivation, specifically the intent to deprive a property owner of his property. Copyright infringement, such as pirating music, movies, etc., does not deprive the property owner of the use and enjoyment of his property, and so is not theft. It does however deprive the copyright owner of the fees you should pay. I’m sure you leave your front door open so people can come in and relax in your living room when you’re not around. That doesn’t deprive you of the use of your property either. ---
**Author:** ![BorgHunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@BorgHunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BorgHunter)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/11 "2010-02-07T19:38:48Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > It does however deprive the copyright owner of the fees you should pay. Sure, and that’s a tortious matter, not a criminal one (as theft is). ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/12 "2010-02-07T19:38:53Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > It does however deprive the copyright owner of the fees you should pay. I’m sure you leave your front door open so people can come in and relax in your living room when you’re not around. That doesn’t deprive you of the use of your property either. That’s a terrible analogy. File sharing doesn’t violate the personal space of the copyright owner. ---
**Author:** ![Dusty\_Rose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ba8739/32.png) [@Dusty\_Rose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dusty_Rose)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/13 "2010-02-07T20:08:27Z")
I keep hearing something I wonder about: that it’s not illegal to download music, only to upload it. Is that true? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/14 "2010-02-07T20:20:01Z")
> [@BorgHunter](#): > > Sure, and that’s a tortious matter, not a criminal one (as theft is). Copyright theft can be a criminal matter. [Chapter 5 Copyright Infringement and Remedies" Section 506](http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#506). Clause (a) (1) (C) is particularly apt here. > [@](#): > > (C) by the distribution of a work being prepared for commercial distribution, by making it available on a computer network accessible to members of the public, if such person knew or should have known that the work was intended for commercial distribution. Not every infringement on copyright is criminal, but copyright theft has both a civil and a criminal definition. If you are making a blanket claim that copyright theft isn’t stealing and isn’t a criminal matter you are wrong in fact and in law. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/15 "2010-02-07T21:03:35Z")
> [@Dusty\_Rose](#): > > I keep hearing something I wonder about: that it’s not illegal to download music, only to upload it. Is that true? No, it’s not true at all. However, folks like the RIAA are only actively going after people who upload files and/or make them available to others. That doesn’t make downloading legal though. It’s still a copyright violation. Note that many file sharing programs make the user’s content available to others, so many people are “uploading” without realizing it. ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/16 "2010-02-07T21:12:05Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > In my very limited experience with torrents, it’s almost exactly like unzipping a zipped file. You download a compressed file and use the torrent program to fully open it. No, it’s nothing like downloading a compressed file. Downloading in the traditional sense means you have a single connection to a single source, and will be constrained by either the source’s available upload bandwidth to send the file and your available download bandwidth to receive the file. If your receiving download bandwidth exceeds the source’s upload bandwidth, then you’re not receiving the file as fast as you can. BitTorrent works by breaking a file up into hundreds or thousands of smaller pieces. With some technical magic, you essentially end up with the capability to download these individual chunks from multiple sources, thus increasing the likelihood of your download bandwidth being maxed out and you being able to receive the file as quickly as possible. Additionally, since there are multiple sources, if one or more have connection problems, you have a good chance of another client stepping in and seeding to you. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/17 "2010-02-07T21:30:22Z")
Many people said they would pay for music downloads once it became easy to pay - well now it is with software like iTunes but a lot of people still don’t pay. ---
**Author:** ![Dusty\_Rose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ba8739/32.png) [@Dusty\_Rose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dusty_Rose)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/18 "2010-02-07T21:36:27Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > No, it’s not true at all. However, folks like the RIAA are only actively going after people who upload files and/or make them available to others. That doesn’t make downloading legal though. It’s still a copyright violation. > > Note that many file sharing programs make the user’s content available to others, so many people are “uploading” without realizing it. Thanks, **Engineer**. I figured that was the case. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/19 "2010-02-07T21:41:10Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Many people said they would pay for music downloads once it became easy to pay - well now it is with software like iTunes but a lot of people still don’t pay. [95%, according to this article](http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE60K1ZM20100121?type=marketsNews). ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051/20 "2010-02-07T21:44:34Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > That’s a terrible analogy. File sharing doesn’t violate the personal space of the copyright owner. Copyright is referring to the _right_ of the owner to do with his property as he sees fit, choosing who to make copies for (or not), and how much he chooses to charge for that privilege (if he does). You are invading his right to control his own property. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-downloading-work/528051.md?page=2)