# How does illegal immigration affect you personally? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 25, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263 "2010-04-25T01:25:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/181 "2010-04-29T20:46:00Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > I’d imagine that especially in the west and southwest, a lot of those Hispanic people have been around for longer than most of the whites that are there. Something about it, y’know, actually belonging to Mexico for a long time before we got it. But, because of the color of their skin, they are somehow abusing the services which are afforded to all Americans. Then, they are openly ridiculed by folks like the ones posting in this thread who have no other basis for their judgement except the color of the Hispanic person’s skin. There are oodles of REAL AMERICANS who are brown. Very brown. And speak Spanish, too. _Aye dios mio!_ ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/182 "2010-04-29T20:59:10Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > You’re right that America has poor from every walk of life, my friend. That’s my point. How can the poster I was responding to tell me that she knows as a matter of fact that the folks she was sitting right along side- folks who were as down trodden as she and her family were in that moment- were not also American citizens? Because of the color of their skin, she made a large assumption about these folks. Folks who might be just as much of an American as she and just as entitled to those services. Why must we assume that because someone isn’t white that they are not an American? That, friend, is bigoted. > > And you are correct. I am an ugly demon. Please don’t let others know this. We don’t know who is a legitimate citizen until the question is asked. Do we stop everybody in the street? No. But there is a time and place when citizenship can be determined and that is when social dollars are spent and when crimes are committed. I would expect a school system to verify every child in it is a citizen. I would expect every person who commits a crime to have his/her citizenship verified. We bend over backward to avoid asking a question we have every right to ask from everybody. I expect my citizenship to be verified. I maintain the documents to do so. I don’t expect Mexico or Canada to serve up free services to other citizens and I would expect a rationed number of visa’s for jobs. The bottom line to this conversation is very basic. Does a country have a right to secure borders? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/183 "2010-04-29T21:06:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > We don’t know who is a legitimate citizen until the question is asked. Do we stop everybody in the street? No. But there is a time and place when citizenship can be determined and that is when social dollars are spent and when crimes are committed. I would expect a school system to verify every child in it is a citizen. I would expect every person who commits a crime to have his/her citizenship verified. > > We bend over backward to avoid asking a question we have every right to ask from everybody. I expect my citizenship to be verified. I maintain the documents to do so. I don’t expect Mexico or Canada to serve up free services to other citizens and I would expect a rationed number of visa’s for jobs. > > The bottom line to this conversation is very basic. Does a country have a right to secure borders? This is all crap no one disagrees with. The point is that the person I specifically was responding to made a broad based generalization that was flat out racist. Sorry, it was. She assumed that every other person in the welfare office \*with her \*that didn’t look just like her was an illegal. Surely you see a problem with this, oui? One can’t just assume that brown = illegal. Our nation does not work like that. Of course a country has a right to secure its borders, but that’s not at all what I was answering \*\* InterestedObserver\*\* about. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/184 "2010-04-29T21:08:04Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > But, because of the color of their skin, they are somehow abusing the services which are afforded to all Americans. Then, they are openly ridiculed by folks like the ones posting in this thread who have no other basis for their judgement except the color of the Hispanic person’s skin. > > There are oodles of REAL AMERICANS who are brown. Very brown. And speak Spanish, too. _Aye dios mio!_ Where exactly does the color of skin fall into this conversation? You have some serious issues. You think a country of WASP’s would somehow get a pass for ignoring our immigration policy? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/185 "2010-04-29T21:12:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Where exactly does the color of skin fall into this conversation? You have some serious issues. You think a country of WASP’s would somehow get a pass for ignoring our immigration policy? Seriously? Once again, read what you interjected yourself into. Bolding mine. [QUOTE= InterestedObserver] We ended up on foodstamps for a while after that lay-off, and I spent a bit of time at the food stamp/welfare office. **Enough to see the Mexican women filling the place** , almost all of them in advanced stages of pregnancy, a baby in arms, 3 or 4 more under 6, there applying for medicaid and food stamps for ALL their kids (and themselves if pregnant). [/QUOTE] This after in a lengthy post all about how the illegals are taking over her fair area. And nice personal attack. Again. Really, what are you trying to prove with that? **edit to add:** Do you legitimately think the law at hand will be equally applied to all races? Do you think there will be an equal number of white folks asked for their papers as brown ones? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/186 "2010-04-29T21:25:26Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > This is all crap no one disagrees with. The point is that the person I specifically was responding to made a broad based generalization that was flat out racist. Sorry, it was. She assumed that every other person in the welfare office \*with her \*that didn’t look just like her was an illegal. Surely you see a problem with this, oui? One can’t just assume that brown = illegal. Our nation does not work like that. One can make a reasoned guess that a percentage of people who can barely speak English are illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/187 "2010-04-29T21:27:31Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > **edit to add:** Do you legitimately think the law at hand will be equally applied to all races? Do you think there will be an equal number of white folks asked for their papers as brown ones? It is my express desire that everybody who commits a crime, receives social benefits, or votes is verified. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/188 "2010-04-29T21:32:50Z")
The poster in question appears to have assumed that all of them were illegal. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/189 "2010-04-29T21:33:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > One can make a reasoned guess that a percentage of people who can barely speak English are illegal. I know plenty of people who are multilingual and don’t necessarily choose to predominantly speak in English. This doesn’t make them any less American. Sometimes when I’m waiting out in public with my friends, we converse in Spanish. I most certainly am not illegal. Or Mexican. Just a white girl with a tan. Remember: speaking something other than English isn’t a crime and it doesn’t mean someone is guilty of some other crime. We don’t have a national language, after all. But remember: **InterestedObserver** didn’t say anything about languages, inability to speak English, and what not about what she witnessed while waiting to get welfare. She said the room was full of MEXICANS and all of their children. All this in a thread about _illegal immigration_. My point is simply that her presentation of facts is a blatantly racist one. Flat out. She has know way of knowing the citizenship status of any of those folks she was waiting with. Just because they were Hispanic doesn’t mean they are illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/190 "2010-04-29T21:42:15Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Just because they were Hispanic doesn’t mean they are illegal. Or even Mexican, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/191 "2010-04-29T21:45:46Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Or even Mexican, for that matter. Absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/192 "2010-04-29T21:47:51Z")
Hispanic, Mexican, potato, el potahto… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/193 "2010-04-29T21:58:42Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > But remember: **InterestedObserver** didn’t say anything about languages, inability to speak English, and what not about what she witnessed while waiting to get welfare. She said the room was full of MEXICANS and all of their children. All this in a thread about _illegal immigration_. My point is simply that her presentation of facts is a blatantly racist one. Flat out. She has know way of knowing the citizenship status of any of those folks she was waiting with. Just because they were Hispanic doesn’t mean they are illegal. Not only did **InterestedObserver** not specify everybody in the room she went so far as to actually site a number earlier of her area: \*\*The population in our immediate area just outside of Houston proper was app. 80% “Hispanic” with app. 80% of that percentage being in the country illegally. This according to a city government funded survey, and I say they were, if anything, a bit conservative in their figures. \*\* She went on to talk about her friendships with MA’s so I didn’t make the assumptions you are making. In the community she lives/lived in she made observations of what is surely the result of poor illegal Mexicans populating the area. They mirror what can be expected of other poor demographic groups and illustrates the need to limit the flow of immigrants from all countries in such a way as to absorb them into our country. That absorption is both financial and cultural. As far as I can tell, we just moved Mexico’s problems North at our own expense. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/194 "2010-04-29T22:26:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Not only did **InterestedObserver** not specify everybody in the room she went so far as to actually site a number earlier of her area: \*\*The population in our immediate area just outside of Houston proper was app. 80% “Hispanic” with app. 80% of that percentage being in the country illegally. This according to a city government funded survey, and I say they were, if anything, a bit conservative in their figures. > > \*\* She went on to talk about her friendships with MA’s so I didn’t make the assumptions you are making. In the community she lives/lived in she made observations of what is surely the result of poor illegal Mexicans populating the area. They mirror what can be expected of other poor demographic groups and illustrates the need to limit the flow of immigrants from all countries in such a way as to absorb them into our country. That absorption is both financial and cultural. As far as I can tell, we just moved Mexico’s problems North at our own expense. She didn’t present any type of source for her 80% claim, mind you. Just some unknown city survey. She cited two cities: Houston and Pasadena. Looking at Houston, it looks like the ever reliable Wiki lists the Metro area to have a population of [5,728,143 people](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston). Now, [this](http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/3500074.html) Houston Chronicle article estimates the illegal immigrant population in the Houston Galvastan area to be between 380,000 and 400,000 people. I’m hardly a mathematician, but that isn’t at all 80%. Even then, only 70% of those 400,000 are Mexicans (the rest are mostly Vietnamese, apparently). The only 80% figure I see is that 80% of the Mexican immigrants that come to the US do so illegally. Something in the milk ain’t clean. I’m happy to accept alternate cites, though. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/195 "2010-04-29T22:46:28Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > She didn’t present any type of source for her 80% claim, mind you. Just some unknown city survey. > > She cited two cities: Houston and Pasadena. > > Looking at Houston, it looks like the ever reliable Wiki lists the Metro area to have a population of [5,728,143 people](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston). Now, [this](http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/3500074.html) Houston Chronicle article estimates the illegal immigrant population in the Houston Galvastan area to be between 380,000 and 400,000 people. I’m hardly a mathematician, but that isn’t at all 80%. Even then, only 70% of those 400,000 are Mexicans (the rest are mostly Vietnamese, apparently). > > The only 80% figure I see is that 80% of the Mexican immigrants that come to the US do so illegally. > > Something in the milk ain’t clean. I’m happy to accept alternate cites, though. She said an area just outside of Houston. She’s obviously referring to one of the surrounding communities. Honestly, lets get off the pissing match wagon. We don’t need to be at each other’s throat. If I thought her posts were hateful or out of line I would say so but I think that you’re being defensive to the point of seeing this as a racial issue. We have an immigration problem and because Mexico is a poor country in close proximity we get a lions share of the excessive immigrants from there. That’s just the reality of it. This affects all Americans including legal immigrants from Mexico. I’m not sure if there any draconian processes involved in the recent AZ legislation but I don’t have a problem with verifying my citizenship when applicable. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/196 "2010-04-29T22:48:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That is a willfully stupid thing to say. just how hard is it for you to understand that if you remove X number of people who shouldn’t be here then the percentage of crime associated with them goes too. Only if you convince me that the number of crimes committed by “X number of people who shouldn’t be here” is somehow different than the number of crimes committed by “X number of people who should be here and are committing the same crimes.” Sure, if we had fewer people, we’d have less crime. Does their immigration status matter? If we allowed NO immigration, we’d have fewer people, and ergo, less crime. If we killed off people that we deemed worthless, we’d have fewer people, and ergo, less crime. If we instituted mandatory abortions for people that society decided shouldn’t be allowed to breed, we’d have fewer people, and therefore, less crime. The crime focus is a red herring, designed to scare people into thinking that hordes of ravening brown people are flooding our country armed with machetes and bad attitudes and killing, raping, robbing, and creating general mayhem, and those are the ONLY people doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/197 "2010-04-29T23:31:21Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Only if you convince me that the number of crimes committed by “X number of people who shouldn’t be here” is somehow different than the number of crimes committed by “X number of people who should be here and are committing the same crimes.” the difference is that if they’re not here, they don’t happen. If we allow for X number of people and 1000X show up then the 999X represent people who shouldn’t be here. The crime component is reality. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/198 "2010-04-30T03:44:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You have some serious issues. > [@Magiver](#): > > I’d also like one for your bigoted use of the term poor white trash because as far as I can tell you’re the complete opposite of your board name. **Magiver** , dial it back. Personal comments don’t belong in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![figure9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@figure9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/figure9)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2010, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/199 "2010-04-30T12:01:29Z")
Some support for Magiver-- [http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/couriernews/news/2216804,Foreign-born-gang-arrests\_EL042910.article](http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/couriernews/news/2216804,Foreign-born-gang-arrests_EL042910.article) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263/200 "2010-04-30T16:09:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **Magiver** , dial it back. Personal comments don’t belong in this forum. Who am I to argue with a comparison of Hispanics and poor white trash. :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-illegal-immigration-affect-you-personally/537263.md?page=11)