Organized crime has done it.
I’ll remove all doubt – the President absolutely cannot pardon someone for state crimes. The Constitution says that the President may grant pardons for “Offences against the United States” – i.e. federal crimes.
Yes, but the problem is that the president needs much more mobility in the event of some major national-security incident. For instance, that’s the whole reason there is the NEACP jumbo jet, to ferry the president around in the event of a nuclear attack or similarly dire crisis, since mobility is the best means of survival. How do you keep the president safe when it’s well-known that he’s at, say, Rikers Island and an ICBM could go there?
Not to mention that an organized-crime boss does not need to have access to highly-classified information as part of running their operation. Would the State of New York permit a SCIF to be constructed on the site of a prison?
For what reason would somebody send an ICBM to kill an ex- President that has fallen out of favor?
In this hypothetical, I don’t think we’re not talking about an ex-president; we’re talking about a currently-serving president, who also happens to be an incarcerated felon.
As Kurt Russell says in Escape From New York, “We’ve only got so long before Mr. President don’t mean a whole lot.” A couple of hours, tops, in case ICBMs are flying.
(Also, we might all pray some cabinet members overstep their authority and go over the President’s head to avoid WW3 in the first place, like Kissinger handling a drunken Nixon.)
Got it.
If he says he can act as President from inside a jail cell, then let him. If he says that he can’t, then his running mate takes over. In neither case is there any interference with the office of the Presidency.
Yeah, but I feel like that’s a case where dual sovereignty might actually prevent that.
It’s not like the Feds can override any state-level law because it’s inconvenient to the Federal Government. Case in point- several executions of foreign nationals where the Feds were powerless to intervene.
I feel like a conviction and imprisonment for what looks like a wholly non-Federal crime would be a situation where there would be zero actual way that the Feds could intervene to get him sprung. The State of New York could just tell the Feds to pound sand from what I understand, even if he was to be elected President.
And I would think that the obvious and proper solution would be for the VP to take the reins until he’s out of prison, as defined in Article 2, Section 1, Clause 6 of the Constitution:
or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President
The 25th Amendment just covers " removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation", so if he’s unable to discharge the Powers and Duties, then it would fall to the VP. And I’d think being imprisoned would be a pretty powerful argument that he can’t discharge those Powers or Duties.
Govern? The only thing his is going to be interested it, in or out of prison, is revenge for being held accountable for his actions. Full Stop.
Sure we have “dual sovereigns,” but the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and the US Supreme Court the body with the authority to determine if a state action is constitutional. If the SC found his incarceration by state authorities to be in conflict with the requirements of the Constitution, then the SC decision rules the day.
If the State of New York refuses to comply with that decision — well, the relevant precedents aren’t pretty.
I think it would come down to whether or not he’s already in prison at the time he’s slated to be inaugurated.
If the answer is no, I could see there being some kind of argument to possibly delay the serving of his sentence until after his term is over.
But if the answer is yes, then I’m not seeing any reason that NY would be obligated to release him. At the time he will have been incarcerated, he would be an ex-President convicted and imprisoned for crimes committed before he was President. None of that runs afoul of the Constitution- the people can elect whoever they want, but the Constitution just defines the eligibility and what happens when they’re unable to serve.
So the way I see it is if an already-incarcerated Trump gets elected, NY has no obligation to let him loose to be President, and the VP serves until his sentence is over.
Yeah, he sorta does. Highly classified in a different way, maybe.
Section 4 of the 25th Amendment is what’s controlling here:
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.
Assuming we’re still talking about Trump, who picks the VP? Trump. Who picks " the principal officers of the executive department" i.e. the Cabinet? Trump. Under what conceivable circumstances does a party with not a single major elected official breaking with him after his conviction decide to oust him as President just because he’s in prison?
But say that they do. Trump will just use his written power to declare that no inability exists. The VP and Cabinet would then have to vote for his inability a second time. Congress must then decide, with a two-thirds majority of both branches required to oust him again. That’s piling impossibility upon impossibility.
In the impossible world in which Trump goes to prison and is elected President, he will serve as President. If the Secret Service has to build a duplicate West Wing in upstate New York it will do so. The Supreme Court will vote 6-3 that this must happen. You’re thinking that the Manhattan District Attorney will fight that successfully? Lewis Carroll’s Queen believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast and even she would gag at this mountain of rancid unicorn-shit sausages.
All I’m saying is they do have an obligation to release him if the Supreme Court says they do. There’s obviously no precedent for how a case that challenges the Constitutionality of a President-elect being incarcerated by a state would play out. And having just typed that sentence, I feel like we’re all living in an absurd first year law school hypothetical.
If, big if in an alternate universe, if anything remotely close to that happened I wouldn’t want to live in NY.
(Brings Bizarro Superman to mind…FSR)
And then, since no inability exists, there will be no need to release him.
Based on the Coolidge precedent, a notary public would suffice. New York prisons provide notary services for inmates through the law library.
So Inmate Trump would have to fill out a law library request form and drop it in the law library box (which is usually in the mess hall). The inmate law clerk would collect the request forms and write up a call-out sheet for Trump and the other inmates wishing to go to the law library. When Trump is scheduled to go to the law library, he’s excused from his regular work program. He’d be escorted to the law library by the program escort officer. Trump would fill out a disbursement sheet charging him a dollar from his account for the notary service (which is paid into the inmate services fund). The officer in charge of the law library (who is required to be a notary as part of the job assignment) would check Trump’s inmate ID card to verify his identity and then administer the Presidential oath of office.
All pretty routine up until that last part.
Maybe he could get the same “adults in the room” he had last time.
But seriously, the number of his associates in legal trouble gives lie to any “all the best people” bullshit. It has to be pointed out how he surrounds himself with shitheels.