# How does Jane Goodall stay alive being around chimps? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 31, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949 "2013-01-31T20:48:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/41 "2017-10-24T12:30:47Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > It wasnt uncommon (the killing anyway) in history for family members of the ruling class to kill one another. Or even today > …cough…Kim…cough. And eat them? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/42 "2017-10-24T12:37:05Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > (Humans obviously are. But I can seen no evidence that socialization is needed to avoid infanticide. To the contrary, almost from birth, human females quite typically show conspicuous warmth to infants.) Do does the [Shellie fish](http://www.gcca.net/art-pics/articles/207-breeding-neolamprologus-multifasciatus#.We8zwLgstqA), Neolamprologus multifasciatus. Fry wander all over the tank and are protected by adults, whatever their relation. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/43 "2017-10-24T15:54:14Z")
There was a PBS show last week (_Nature_?) which had a segment about releasing an orphaned chimp back into the wild. Goodall came along for the ride to the island where these chimps are released. Along the way she talked gently to the chimp in its cage. When it was released, the chimp immediately went to Goodall and hugged her for a long time. This chimp had _never_ seen Goodall before. While this chimp had been around humans for quite a while, it did not race to one of the people it knew. I think what was going on was that Goodall knows how to talk softly, avoid threatening eye contact or gestures. Doesn’t smile (baring her teeth). And a bunch of other behaviors that are natural for humans but trigger chimps. In short, she learned how to act right around chimps and is less likely to spark something. ---
**Author:** ![Disgscen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f05b48/32.png) [@Disgscen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgscen)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/44 "2017-10-24T16:02:40Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > It’s not an argument against the existence of socialization. I’m maintaining that very few species provide evidence of a level of socialization anywhere near comprehensive enough to be the explanation for females not killing others’ young. > > Which species do you believe are exceptions? I would argue that expecting species to “provide evidence” of socialization is getting things exactly backwards. Our failure to understand complex behavior isn’t proof that the behavior is simple. Although you haven’t asserted it outright, your position seems to be that “comprehensive socialization” only occurs in humans, and perhaps closely related species. I think that’s an enormous and completely unsubstantiated claim. So without evidence to the contrary, I don’t believe any vertebrate species are exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/45 "2017-10-24T18:38:36Z")
> [@Disgscen](#): > > Our failure to understand complex behavior isn’t proof that the behavior is simple. You’re saying that females who seek out and kill others’ infants are exhibiting simple behavior, whereas failure to do this represents complex behavior? > [@](#): > > … I don’t believe any vertebrate species are exceptions. How about a species like the wolverine? (Individuals spend very little time in the company of other wolverines.) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/46 "2017-10-24T19:31:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But anyway, if you had something else in mind, why don’t you go ahead and respond to that poster? I thought you were referring to what Goodall had in mind. Whoops. ---
**Author:** ![Disgscen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f05b48/32.png) [@Disgscen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgscen)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/47 "2017-10-24T19:42:44Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > You’re saying that females who seek out and kill others’ infants are exhibiting simple behavior, whereas failure to do this represents complex behavior? No, I’m saying your assertions defining various behaviors as simple are unsupported. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/48 "2017-10-24T22:52:16Z")
> [@Disgscen](#): > > I’m saying your assertions defining various behaviors as simple are unsupported. What various behaviors [plural]? I think a tendency among females to selectively kill other’s infants represents complex behavior, and thus its absence is less complex. You said “Our failure to understand complex behavior isn’t proof that the behavior is simple.” To what behavior were you referring? ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/49 "2017-10-25T05:03:18Z")
I saw a fascinating documentary on a chimp war in Uganda last week on the plane. this is an article on the chimp war and there is a short segment where a rival gets snagged and then drawn and quartered and devoured. Really good documentary. [Warrior chimps use 'death patrols' to keep rivals out | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4622774/Warrior-chimps-use-death-patrols-rivals-out.html) Apologies my google-fu is weak and not turning up the full documentary ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/50 "2017-10-25T20:41:28Z")
In regards to Bigfoot or Yeti… are there any known larger primates that are solitary, not herd/pack/tribe social animals? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/51 "2017-10-25T21:15:43Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > It’s not an argument against the existence of socialization. I’m maintaining that very few species provide evidence of a level of socialization anywhere near comprehensive enough to be the explanation for females not killing others’ young. > > Which species do you believe are exceptions? > > (Humans obviously are. But I can seen no evidence that socialization is needed to avoid infanticide. To the contrary, almost from birth, human females quite typically show conspicuous warmth to infants.) Maybe to THEIR infants (though most of that is a socialization thing also), but human females can and will act with extreme brutality toward infants that are direct competition with their offspring. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/52 "2017-10-26T00:49:12Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > … human females can and will act with extreme brutality toward infants that are direct competition with their offspring. Women exhibiting brutality toward infants - as normal behavior?? What are some examples of this? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/53 "2017-10-26T01:17:24Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Women exhibiting brutality toward infants - as normal behavior?? > > What are some examples of this? Mama Plant…“Take that thing away from me! It has a big nose!” ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/54 "2017-10-26T01:35:34Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > In regards to Bigfoot or Yeti… are there any known larger primates that are solitary, not herd/pack/tribe social animals? Orangutans are mostly solitary under normal conditions, although they don’t seem to have any trouble living in communities in captivity or in rescue/conservation programs. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/55 "2017-10-26T01:57:54Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Orangutans are mostly solitary under normal conditions, although they don’t seem to have any trouble living in communities in captivity or in rescue/conservation programs. The male orangutan of a couple at the Little Rock zoo died a year or two ago. He had a blanket that he took with him, whether on the ground or climbing twenty feet up on poles made by the zoo people. The female was much smaller than he. I do not know how she fares now. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Crap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.crap/32/3131_2.png) [@Dr.Crap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Crap)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/56 "2017-10-26T04:14:01Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > I saw a fascinating documentary on a chimp war in Uganda last week on the plane. this is an article on the chimp war and there is a short segment where a rival gets snagged and then drawn and quartered and devoured. Really good documentary. [Warrior chimps use 'death patrols' to keep rivals out | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4622774/Warrior-chimps-use-death-patrols-rivals-out.html) Apologies my google-fu is weak and not turning up the full documentary That would be [Rise Of The Warrior Apes](http://www.discoveryuk.com/shows/rise-of-the-warrior-apes/). ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/57 "2017-10-26T13:35:30Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Women exhibiting brutality toward infants - as normal behavior?? > > What are some examples of this? Trying not to branch off-topic, but the myth that women are universally in love with babies really angers me, so I’ll say this and afterward return to the matter of Goodall and the chimps. Selling the babies of slaves to provide wet nurses for the women of slave-owning families. Baby farming where the intent was the infant would die from neglect was practically a method of birth control in the Victorian Era. Throughout history women have abused infants of lower social classes if they perceived the result was a better life for themselves or their own children. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/58 "2017-10-27T06:27:49Z")
> [@Dr.Crap](#): > > That would be [Rise Of The Warrior Apes](http://www.discoveryuk.com/shows/rise-of-the-warrior-apes/). That’s it. Thanks. Fascinating and somewhat disturbing documentary… ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949/60 "2017-10-27T23:28:03Z")
I haven’t read a Goodall book since the late 90s, so I’m quite possibly out of date, but what I remember is that killing and eating the infants of other females was confined to a chimp named Passion and later to her daughter, Pom. Passion showed other unusual behaviors, too, leading Goodall to comment that she might have been a kind of “chimp serial killer,” and her behavior wasn’t normal by chimp standards. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-jane-goodall-stay-alive-being-around-chimps/648949.md?page=2)