# How does LeBron James compare to Michael Jordan at the latter's best? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 28, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-lebron-james-compare-to-michael-jordan-at-the-latters-best/651671 "2013-02-28T22:16:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-lebron-james-compare-to-michael-jordan-at-the-latters-best/651671/21 "2013-03-01T17:14:30Z")
Yes, but I don’t think it was ever argued that Jordan faded in the playoffs. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-lebron-james-compare-to-michael-jordan-at-the-latters-best/651671/22 "2013-03-01T17:44:02Z")
The size argument may be pertinent to the 60’s weight wise because without protein/year-round training/etc. there’s no way you could maintain the bulk that modern players have and still play basketball. The size, especially the musculature, is entirely artificial. However in the 80’s and 90’s, when the golden era of Centers ruled the NBA and Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, and Shaq were setting up shop, not to mention the 2nd tier guys like Alonzo Mourning, Dikembe Mutombo, and Mark Eaton, or even the 3rd tier guys like Sikma, Divac, and Rik Smits… compared to the post defenders of 2013? And no handchecking? Lebron basically has a moving sidewalk to the rim. Interesting discussion with regard to boxers cross-eras, but that’s a discussion for a different day. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-lebron-james-compare-to-michael-jordan-at-the-latters-best/651671/23 "2013-03-01T18:23:09Z")
Detlef Schrempf is better than both of them. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-lebron-james-compare-to-michael-jordan-at-the-latters-best/651671/24 "2013-03-01T19:03:14Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Jordan also played in a rougher NBA, at least to my eye; transplant Lebron to the 92-93 season, and opposing teams would have ways of defending him that aren’t really used any more. Lebron’s a big guy, but so was Charles Oakley. That’s not to say that he wouldn’t adapt - he definitely would. But he wouldn’t cut through the league the way you imagine, and I think he’d still be second to Jordan. Unquestionably, the current league is far more friendly to superstar scorers than it was when Jordan began. Not just that defenders can’t be as rough, but even handchecking is out, the no-charge circle under the basket is here, and even minor touch fouls are called more often (particularly in favor of big name stars). I think the superstar favoritism was taking off by Jordan’s last years, but he didn’t come into the league getting the calls LeBron did. On the other side, current defenses are a lot more sophisticated, so LeBron is facing more effective help than Jordan generally did. But I don’t think that really makes up for the general tilt towards scoring in the current league. (One might wonder if current defensive rotations might have lowered Jordan’s scoring but increased his assists). Also, I want to have Oakminster describe the epilogue, where Jordan comes back from the Grey Havens, and though he’s moving slower than a 144-year-old Bilbo, still tries to get to Mordor again, but his new Fellowship is routed just outside of Bree by a couple of half-crippled goblins, and he tells everyone in the Prancing Pony how hobbits these days suck and don’t want to defeat evil. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-lebron-james-compare-to-michael-jordan-at-the-latters-best/651671/25 "2013-03-01T19:31:08Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He sure didn’t fade in the playoffs last year. He took over and pretty much kicked the crap out of everyone. And that is why we can have this conversation now. And if he keeps this level of production for say… eight to ten more years then the comparison would start to make sense. Up until last year i would have compared Lebron to Pippen instead. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-lebron-james-compare-to-michael-jordan-at-the-latters-best/651671/26 "2013-03-01T21:31:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He sure didn’t fade in the playoffs last year. He took over and pretty much kicked the crap out of everyone. Thinking back, it’s really one playoff series, no? Also the support he received in Cleveland was pretty terrible (Mo Williams was his number 2 for a while ferchristsake and Sideshow Andy wasn’t quite the player he is today at that point). The last series he played in Cleveland he seemed to quit, but that’s really it (have to admit, one of my favorite conspiracy theories is involved). Aside from the last playoff performance, he was also otherworldly against detroit in the conference finals that took the team to the finals aganst the spurs. In the finals they were simply overmatched. Lets also remember that Jordan didn’t win his first championship until he was 28 which is more or less the same age as Lebron and by that point Lebron had been to two finals. Lebron has time. Jordan has and always will be better in isolation and you certainly have to give him the nod over Lebron at this point but it’s no guarantee, at least in my opinion, that it’ll stay that way when all is said and done. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-lebron-james-compare-to-michael-jordan-at-the-latters-best/651671/27 "2013-03-01T21:42:03Z")
> [@drm](#): > > Thinking back, it’s really one playoff series, no? It’s the Indiana, Boston, and Oklahoma City series, particularly during the games Bosh was out. In the playoffs last year he averaged 30.3 points, 9.7 rebounds, 6.7 assists, 1.9 steals and 1 block per game and shot 50%. I agree with you that his supporting casts in Cleveland were not as good as people thought they were - although he gets some of the blame for that - and I don’t think the coaches played to his skills either. In spite of that he did have some other excellent performances that got overlooked after his playoff failures in his last season in Cleveland and his first in Miami. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-lebron-james-compare-to-michael-jordan-at-the-latters-best/651671/28 "2013-03-01T23:00:47Z")
Sorry, I meant one series that he faded in. There may have been one his second last year in Cleveland as well although I can’t recall that one. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-lebron-james-compare-to-michael-jordan-at-the-latters-best/651671/29 "2013-03-02T04:19:42Z")
> [@drm](#): > > Thinking back, it’s really one playoff series, no? Also the support he received in Cleveland was pretty terrible (Mo Williams was his number 2 for a while ferchristsake and Sideshow Andy wasn’t quite the player he is today at that point). The last series he played in Cleveland he seemed to quit, but that’s really it (have to admit, one of my favorite conspiracy theories is involved). Aside from the last playoff performance, he was also otherworldly against detroit in the conference finals that took the team to the finals aganst the spurs. In the finals they were simply overmatched. > > Lets also remember that Jordan didn’t win his first championship until he was 28 which is more or less the same age as Lebron and by that point Lebron had been to two finals. Lebron has time. > > Jordan has and always will be better in isolation and you certainly have to give him the nod over Lebron at this point but it’s no guarantee, at least in my opinion, that it’ll stay that way when all is said and done. Jordan had some pretty crappy teams and while, early on, it was said that he couldn’t lead a team to the championship, nobody ever accused him of coasting/quitting/being lost on the floor. There are a number of series where Lebron was definitely coasting (last series in Cleveland, Mavs vs. Heat) and took some rightful shit for it. And while you’re right about the age, don’t forget: 1. LBJ entered at the age of 19, winning his first championship in his 10th season at age 28. 2. Jordan entered at the age of 21, winning in his 7th season at age 28 (though it was just his 6th full season, as Jordan was out most of his second season with a broken foot\*.) Jordan never lost a Finals series, either. As mentioned, we’ll know once LBJ has retired, but I would still give the edge to Jordan. Lebron might be bigger in size, but Jordan hated to lose more and that’s where he has the edge. \*This was the season MJ scored 63 against the Celtics in the second game of the playoffs, a record that still stands. This Celtics team is regarded in some circles as the greatest of the post-merger era. ---
**Author:** ![chicagowhitesox1173](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/46a35a/32.png) [@chicagowhitesox1173](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicagowhitesox1173)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-lebron-james-compare-to-michael-jordan-at-the-latters-best/651671/30 "2013-03-02T16:59:39Z")
If Michael Jordan played in todays game he would dominate more than what he did when he played. Michael Jordan is the Babe Ruth of basketball. I personally feel Lebron James will only win 3 titles and had Jordan’s Bulls played the Heat in a conferance final, Lebron would have 0 rings. Lebron has about 3 more peak years before he starts declining and a declining Lebron won’t win many championships especially with Dwayne Wade already becoming injury prone. ---
**Author:** ![kevja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@kevja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevja)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-lebron-james-compare-to-michael-jordan-at-the-latters-best/651671/31 "2013-03-03T00:01:01Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > And Lennox Lewis would have made mince meat out of Jou Louis or Muhammad Ali. If Lennox Lewis read this, he would probably laugh out loud. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-lebron-james-compare-to-michael-jordan-at-the-latters-best/651671/32 "2013-03-04T14:24:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s the Indiana, Boston, and Oklahoma City series, particularly during the games Bosh was out. In the playoffs last year he averaged 30.3 points, 9.7 rebounds, 6.7 assists, 1.9 steals and 1 block per game and shot 50%. I agree with you that his supporting casts in Cleveland were not as good as people thought they were - although he gets some of the blame for that - and I don’t think the coaches played to his skills either. In spite of that he did have some other excellent performances that got overlooked after his playoff failures in his last season in Cleveland and his first in Miami. Just for the record, in the Boston series last summer, LeBron did absolutely take over and dominate – one game (game 6). He was not at all the same force in any other game. Incidentally, that game 6 wouldn’t have happened without some, uh, interesting refereeing in game 2 (and Miami still needed overtime to win). And arguably, Miami still wouldn’t have won the series without some more interesting calls to get Garnett into foul trouble in game 7. So I don’t think the Boston series is an example of his consistent domination of a series. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-lebron-james-compare-to-michael-jordan-at-the-latters-best/651671/33 "2013-03-04T15:29:23Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Just for the record, in the Boston series last summer, LeBron did absolutely take over and dominate – one game (game 6). He was not at all the same force in any other game. Incidentally, that game 6 wouldn’t have happened without some, uh, interesting refereeing in game 2 (and Miami still needed overtime to win). And arguably, Miami still wouldn’t have won the series without some more interesting calls to get Garnett into foul trouble in game 7. That reads like a metric ton of excuse making. Game 6 towers above the others, sure, but he gave the Heat at least 29 points and 6 boards every game and averaged 33.6 points, 11 rebounds, and 3.9 assists per game for the series, and I believe he did all that while giving Paul Pierce a very hard time on defense. It was a dominant performance by any sensible measurement. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-lebron-james-compare-to-michael-jordan-at-the-latters-best/651671/34 "2013-03-04T16:51:59Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Lebron has been told of his mission by Gandalf, and traveled to that bar where he meets Strider, maybe about the time of the battle with the wights. Most of his story is yet to be written. > > Jordan walked into Mordor, slam dunked the One Ring about 6 times, surpassed Gandalf, scored with all the elf-chicks, bought the Shire, found another balrog and dunked over his ass, and has the t-shirt. So you’re saying that LeBron is only 3 & 1/2 feet tall, and Jordan broke Eowyn’s heart and must be shot? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-lebron-james-compare-to-michael-jordan-at-the-latters-best/651671/35 "2013-03-04T23:25:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Oakminster** : > > Jordan walked into Mordor, slam dunked the One Ring about 6 times, surpassed Gandalf, scored with all the elf-chicks, bought the Shire, found another balrog and dunked over his ass, and has the t-shirt. Did the balrog have “Villanova” etched into its chest in cruel runes? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-lebron-james-compare-to-michael-jordan-at-the-latters-best/651671.md?page=1)