# How does media bias work (within the organization itself?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277 "2019-04-30T19:53:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/41 "2019-05-02T01:55:15Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Is the contention that liberal news can not attract advertisers? Is the world so screwed that corruption can not be reported on because you can not do business without corrupt money? I won’t speak for **GIGObuster** but it is **MY** contention that advertisers are quite capable of pulling their advertising when there is something on the air that offends them enough, and that is enough to keep major media _somewhere_ around the political and social center. Cite: Bill O’Reilly on Fox, who [lost 60 sponsors in the two weeks](http://time.com/4730099/bill-oreilly-advertisers-commercials-sexual-harassment/) between the reports of his sexual harassment lawsuit settlements and when he took a vacation from Fox from which he never returned. Political cite: When Sinclair Broadcasting was caught [running identical editorials on its 193 local stations last year](https://adage.com/article/media/a-sinclair-broadcasting-ad-boycott-easy/312953), at least one Democratic congressional candidate [pulled all her primary election advertising from the Sinclair station in her district, despite that stations having the highest news ratings in the market.](https://www.facebook.com/AmyMcGrathKY/posts/199316127353602) (She won anyway, defeating the incumbent.) Non political cite: In 1993, St. Louis TV station tried to pull a clumsy, ill-advised “sting” on a Roman Catholic priest. When the story blew up in their faces, the members of the St. Louis Automobile Dealers Association, who happened to be headed that year by a devout Catholic, pulled all their commercials from the station. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/42 "2019-05-02T01:55:30Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You don’t know who they are? > > And “evil news agency” is the silliest argument that I’ve read on this board in quite a while. I do not know who Tamara Holder is. I know the other two. And if “evil” is too much of a caricature for you fine. How about an organization dedicated to causing strife and sowing discord in the pursuit of profit and continues to coarsen dialog and stoke fear with zeal and somehow blurring what an actual fact is and never letting up despite how bad things have gotten in this area? Seems evil to me. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/43 "2019-05-02T01:58:45Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > I won’t speak for **GIGObuster** but it is **MY** contention that advertisers are quite capable of pulling their advertising when there is something on the air that offends them enough, and that is enough to keep major media _somewhere_ around the political and social center. Sure. Your citations do not suggest that a newspaper has to stop reporting on things happening in the Spanish Civil War because moneyed interests want the bad things to continue. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/44 "2019-05-02T02:18:50Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > . How about an organization dedicated to causing strife and sowing discord in the pursuit of profit and continues to coarsen dialog and stoke fear with zeal and somehow blurring what an actual fact is and never letting up despite how bad things have gotten in this area? CNN and MSNBC aren’t pursuing profit? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/45 "2019-05-02T02:24:02Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Is the contention that liberal news can not attract advertisers? Is the world so screwed that corruption can not be reported on because you can not do business without corrupt money? Well, [people do.](https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/aug/20/greenwashing-environmentalism-lies-companies) Of course they do get plenty of advertisements; after all, big business do have to continuously influence their customers… who are voters too. For the media that has liberal members it requires making a lot of compromises, and you do not see a lot more reporting on subjects that big advertisers would rather not let the people know about it, when it gets reported, it is when the shit already did hit the fan. Before that, very little comes out. In a Charlie Rose interview in PBS, circa 2002. The New York Times knew that Enron’s economic models were bananas and Enron was likely not a good investment or a failure to come. The Times economic reporter had this commentary, on why they did not report much of that conclusion before Enron was history and almost sunk the economy: Because “Other things came up!” Charlie Rose, by not making any follow up questions to that whitewash of an answer, just completed the picture; media that depends on corporation revenues will have many inconvenient things for the corporations not covered much, if at all. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/46 "2019-05-02T03:04:44Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The way then it should be done: Instead of climate change deniers, put vaccine deniers there: > > [https://youtu.be/cjuGCJJUGsg?t=107](https://youtu.be/cjuGCJJUGsg?t=107) I would not be averse to 9 vaccination advocates (not necessarily all scientists) debating one anti-vaxxer. Or one paragraph explaining the anti-vax stance and nine paragraphs refuting it. Or one anti-vax feature and nine commonsense features. But I’m not an anti-vaxxer. Obviously this is less practical with climate change denying scientists. But then again, when would normal people watch a debate about climate change? The people who deny our doubt or are indifferent aren’t going to watch a debate about a non-issue. The people who are concerned about climate change might watch, but that’s broadcasting to the choir. The debater may well be the only one whose mind changes, and chances are they go into the debate with very strong beliefs. People in my lobby literally don’t care at all when “stay green” and “conserve energy” flash across the television. Most of them are older conservatives and, as one fellow said a couple weeks ago, “won’t live to see things go south even if global warming apocalypse is true”. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/47 "2019-05-02T03:12:10Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Your citations do not suggest that a newspaper has to stop reporting on things happening in the Spanish Civil War because moneyed interests want the bad things to continue. I specifically said I do not speak for **GigoBuster**. My citations suggest that advertisers don’t advertise in media they don’t like, for many reasons. I was not alive in 1936 and I have no idea what may have been said to J. David Stern behind closed doors. Is there a reason why you want to focus on the Spanish Civil War instead of your actual question? > [@Whack-A-Mole](#): > > Is the contention that liberal news can not attract advertisers? Is the world so screwed that corruption can not be reported on because you can not do business without corrupt money? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/48 "2019-05-02T03:25:13Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > CNN and MSNBC aren’t pursuing profit? Sure. And they are certainly suspect too and I would be careful consuming news from them. But Fox is way, way worse. Well, MSNBC might be as bad trying to follow the Fox model but for the left. CNN I think wants to be the middle but there is no money there so they are in a quandary. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/49 "2019-05-02T03:29:59Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Charlie Rose, by not making any follow up questions to that whitewash of an answer, just completed the picture; media that depends on corporation revenues will have many inconvenient things for the corporations not covered much, if at all. I work in journalism. I get the problem and it is real and it is hard to deal with. I think where I work has managed it pretty well but mistakes have been made. No one is perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/50 "2019-05-02T03:31:59Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > I specifically said I do not speak for **GigoBuster**. My citations suggest that advertisers don’t advertise in media they don’t like, for many reasons. I was not alive in 1936 and I have no idea what may have been said to J. David Stern behind closed doors. Is there a reason why you want to focus on the Spanish Civil War instead of your actual question? I have no idea what you are complaining about here. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/51 "2019-05-02T03:55:44Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > It is indisputable that the vast majority of journalists are liberal and thus biased against conservatives. That’s one possibility. An alternative explanation is that the vast majority of journalists are simply telling the truth and reality does not reflect well on conservatives. If the media reports that Donald Trump is telling a lie, does that mean the media is biased against Donald Trump? Or does it mean that Donald Trump told a lie? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/52 "2019-05-02T03:56:56Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I would not be averse to 9 vaccination advocates (not necessarily all scientists) debating one anti-vaxxer. Actually, for that debate it would be close to 90 scientists telling the anti-vaxxer to take a hike. > **[Does the scientific community support vaccination?](https://www.vox.com/2018/8/21/17588092/vaccines-science-community-evidence)** > > Vaccines are overwhelmingly supported by the experts, science, and other evidence. > [@](#): > > A 2014 survey from the Pew Research Center found 86 percent of scientists with the American Association for the Advancement of Science think childhood vaccines should be mandatory. And the American Academy of Pediatrics, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Institutes of Health, National Academy of Sciences, and World Health Organization encourage vaccination and deem it safe. > [@Max\_S](#): > > Or one paragraph explaining the anti-vax stance and nine paragraphs refuting it. Or one anti-vax feature and nine commonsense features. But I’m not an anti-vaxxer. Mind you, that percentage was for scientists that do think it should be mandatory, that percentage is close to 100 when the issue is to be just in favor of vaccines. > [@Max\_S](#): > > Obviously this is less practical with climate change denying scientists. But then again, when would normal people watch a debate about climate change? The people who deny our doubt or are indifferent aren’t going to watch a debate about a non-issue. The people who are concerned about climate change might watch, but that’s broadcasting to the choir. The debater may well be the only one whose mind changes, and chances are they go into the debate with very strong beliefs. People in my lobby literally don’t care at all when “stay green” and “conserve energy” flash across the television. Most of them are older conservatives and, as one fellow said a couple weeks ago, “won’t live to see things go south even if global warming apocalypse is true”. > > ~Max “A man only begins to grasp the true meaning of life when he plants a tree under whose shade he knows he will never sit.” - David Elton Trueblood Allegedly a Greek proverb, [but likely original from a Quaker in the 50’s](https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2017/08/26/a-society-grows-great-when-old-men-plant-trees-in-whose-shade-they-know-they-shall-never-sit-an-ancient-greek-proverb/comment-page-1/) ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/53 "2019-05-02T04:14:49Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Actually, for that debate it would be close to 90 scientists telling the anti-vaxxer to take a hike. 1% of scientists disagreeing with the other 99% is not newsworthy. What is newsworthy is that a 9% minority of the public disagrees with 83% of the public and 99% of scientists, and crucially this 9% is endangering public safety. I wouldn’t panel the pro-vaccination side with all scientists because facts are less convincing than emotions. A couple former anti-vaxxers or measles survivors might get through to the target audience. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/54 "2019-05-02T04:30:22Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > 1% of scientists disagreeing with the other 99% is not newsworthy. What is newsworthy is that a 9% minority of the public disagrees with 83% of the public and 99% of scientists, and crucially this 9% is endangering public safety. I wouldn’t panel the pro-vaccination side with all scientists because facts are less convincing than emotions. A couple former anti-vaxxers or measles survivors might get through to the target audience. > > ~Max Of course, but the solution is not to give them a megaphone when they already have one. Again, debate is not the solution here, anti-vaccine people need to be dealt with by using the law and with societal pressure. > **[What a teenager who got vaccinated against his parents’ will can teach us...](https://qz.com/1579023/how-people-become-anti-vaxxers-and-how-to-stop-them)** > > How people become anti-vaxxers, and how to stop them. > [@](#): > > Sometimes it takes rebellious youth to help us see the error of our ways. > > Consider Ethan Lindenberger, an 18-year-old from Ohio. His act of rebellion wasn’t staying out past curfew or avoiding his homework: It was getting vaccinated on his own, despite his mother’s protests. > > Lindenberger’s mother opted her children out of vaccines and fed them messages about the dangers of immunizations. As he posted on Reddit, “My parents think vaccines are some kind of government scheme. It’s stupid and I’ve had countless arguments over the topic.” > > So when he turned 18, he asked Reddit how he could get the shots he had been denied throughout his childhood: flu, pneumonia, chickenpox, hepatitis A, hepatitis B, HPV, meningitis, MMR, tetanus booster, and TDAP (whooping cough). > > Redditors gave him guidance, and the thread went viral. The whole episode ended with Lindenberger testifying to Congress earlier this month. In New York, his testimony moved two state lawmakers so much that they’re proposing a bill in the state legislature allowing teenagers 14 and up to get vaccinated—even if doing so goes against their parents’ wishes. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/55 "2019-05-02T05:07:10Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I do not know who Tamara Holder is. I know the other two. > > And if “evil” is too much of a caricature for you fine. How about an organization dedicated to causing strife and sowing discord in the pursuit of profit and continues to coarsen dialog and stoke fear with zeal and somehow blurring what an actual fact is and never letting up despite how bad things have gotten in this area? > > Seems evil to me. YMMV. Which so-called news source of any size doesn’t pander for market share? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/56 "2019-05-02T05:23:19Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Which so-called news source of any size doesn’t pander for market share? First, tell me what a “so-called news source” is to you. “So-called” as opposed to…? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/57 "2019-05-02T06:30:13Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > First, tell me what a “so-called news source” is to you. “So-called” as opposed to…? Entertainment. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/58 "2019-05-02T06:37:12Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Entertainment. Okay. Are there any news sources that, in your view, are not entertainment? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/59 "2019-05-02T12:51:47Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The Center for Public Integrity [found](https://publicintegrity.org/federal-politics/journalists-shower-hillary-clinton-with-campaign-cash/) that of journalists who donated to a campaign 96% donated to Clinton, and 4% Trump. > > It is indisputable that the vast majority of journalists are liberal and thus biased against conservatives. Can you imagine any reason why people involved in journalism might overwhelmingly disapprove of Trump (beyond liberal bias)? > [@Shodan](#): > > Which leads to a self-reinforcing cycle - liberals hire other liberals, and so on. Can you imagine any reason why people involved in journalism might hesitate to hire a Trump supporter (beyond liberal bias)? Now maybe the same point can be made of Romney in the 2012 election. If so, you should probably make it about Romney in 2012 instead. But if the best you can come up with is, “journalists don’t like a man who has repeatedly and publicly called them ‘the enemy of the people’ and lies more often than any politician in recorded history by a wide margin because they have a liberal bias”, your argument may be missing a few steps. It’s kind of like assuming that there aren’t very many YEC biologists and paleontologists because academia has a problem with religion. Please - try to be more self-aware than [Ben Stein](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expelled:_No_Intelligence_Allowed). ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277/60 "2019-05-02T13:23:25Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Okay. > > Are there any news sources that, in your view, are not entertainment? Maybe one of the CSpans. I think NPR does a good job. NYT isn’t bad. But you can’t escape bias and editorializing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-media-bias-work-within-the-organization-itself/833277.md?page=4)