# How does methanol get into alcoholic beverages? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 27, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629 "2019-03-27T19:39:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/21 "2019-03-28T10:09:47Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > The only time I’ve ever heard of that was when a relative of mine mentioned that she was at a party where someone spiked the drinks with rubbing alcohol. A handful of people woke up the next blind, one person went to another party and had ‘regular’ alcohol (ethanol) which, as it turns out, is an antidote. Back when my sister was in vet school and learning all sorts of useful “joys of chemistry” tidbits, her class came up with a drunken motto : “The antidote to antifreeze is an ethyl alcohol perfusion !” (back then most antifreeze & windshield wiper fluid brands were mostly methanol). As their joke went, if you wanted to get seven kinds of blitzed on the cheap : just chug some antifreeze and go to the nearest hospital. They’ll, quite literally, hook you up ! What’s the worst that could happen ? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/22 "2019-03-29T15:46:11Z")
**DesertWife** was a med-tech and one of the stories told to her in school was how an alky in Los Angeles had discovered that the first aid for methanol poisoning was to give a generous dose of ethanol. He didn’t drink it but would wander into ER with an empty methanol can complaining he didn’t feel good, get his dose, then vanish while they were fetching the gastric lavage equipment. Then there was a regional ER doc, nurse, and tech conference and notes were compared (Oh, yeah, he was in our place, too.) so the next hospital was ready for him. He got his dose, all right, but they had the gear handy and _immediately_ held him down and pumped out his stomach. He dropped the habit. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/23 "2019-03-29T17:21:27Z")
I have read that methanol in fermented mashes comes from pectins being fermented, not the sugars. I have tried to search the web to confirm this, and have found sites saying it is so. Does this mean if somebody fermented sugar water, there would be no methanol in the resulting product? I found one place that said yes, but it was a hobby distillery page (Australian) and not something I’d depend on. Are there any experts out there who can confirm or deny this? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/24 "2019-03-29T18:26:07Z")
> [@california\_jobcase](#): > > I have read that methanol in fermented mashes comes from pectins being fermented, not the sugars. I have tried to search the web to confirm this, and have found sites saying it is so. Does this mean if somebody fermented sugar water, there would be no methanol in the resulting product? I found one place that said yes, but it was a hobby distillery page (Australian) and not something I’d depend on. Are there any experts out there who can confirm or deny this? Depends on the type of yeast used. Some yeasts can produce methanol without pectins. Most methanol comes from breaking down pectins but it is possible to that using pure sugar water could be fermented to have methanol if the wrong yeast or bacteria got into it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/25 "2019-03-29T18:48:43Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > That is possibly true. I also think the revenuers spread these tales to dissuade people from buying moonshine. Except that the Prohibition people deliberately poisoned booze with it. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/26 "2019-03-29T19:02:38Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Depends on the type of yeast used. Some yeasts can produce methanol without pectins. Most methanol comes from breaking down pectins but it is possible to that using pure sugar water could be fermented to have methanol if the wrong yeast or bacteria got into it. This is correct. Primary fermentation source of methanol is pectin but it is also a by product of some stressed yeast strains and a pure sugar fermentation is fairly stressful for yeast since there is a lack of nutrients and generally high osmotic pressure on the cells. You could try to create a 6% sugar wash and with the right balance of FAN, micro nutrients and temperature control produce booze without methanol but damn that’s a lot of work for not a lot of gain. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/27 "2019-03-29T19:57:47Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > “Rubbing alcohol” is isopropyl alcohol, not methanol. It’s not good for you, but it’s not as toxic as methanol. Isopropyl is metabolized to acetone, not formaldehyde and formic acid. It doesn’t cause blindness or the sort of acute nerve damage that methanol does. > > So I have to wonder if the tale you relate didn’t get garbled on the way to your ear. > > But I could see people being stupid enough to spike the punch with all sorts of random alcohols/other stuff, especially when already drunk or high. It may have been garbled on the way to my ear, but it I was also told about it nearly 30 years ago, so it’s very possibly I’m misremembering it. I really only remember the main details. Someone spiked the drinks, people went home after the party and one went to another part. The one that went to another party was fine, the others woke up can couldn’t see. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/28 "2022-07-19T19:27:21Z")
I would guess this was a moonshine situation, where the bar owner tried to save some money. > **[Methanol found in blood of all 21 teenagers found dead in South African bar,...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2022/07/19/methanol-found-blood-21-teens-dead-south-african-bar/10096060002/)** > > South African police said final toxicology reports will determine whether anyone faces criminal charges in the teenagers' deaths. [https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/explainer-methanol-south-africa-teen-deaths-fatal-87080177](https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/explainer-methanol-south-africa-teen-deaths-fatal-87080177) ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/29 "2022-07-20T03:51:45Z")
Back in the day, moonshiners and third world distillers used to rig up cheap stills using car radiators as condensers - but since radiators were not meant for consumables, the result would be excessive lead content from the soldering joints. Customers typically suffered and died from lead poisoning. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/30 "2022-07-20T12:21:56Z")
This is an old thread but a few posts mention distillation heads. Please note that ternary azeotropes are complicated and methanol (if present) can be found in all fractions and, despite its low boiling point, can be more prevalent in the tails. > **[Methanol Mitigation during Manufacturing of Fruit Spirits with Special...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8125215/)** > > Methanol is a natural ingredient with major occurrence in fruit spirits, such as apple, pear, plum or cherry spirits, but also in spirits made from coffee pulp. The compound is formed during fermentation and the following mash storage by enzymatic... IIRC pretty much all mass methanol poisonings are due to adulteration, not from distillation carryover. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/31 "2022-07-20T14:42:12Z")
Denatured ethanol (sold as fuel, including in Sterno) added to raise alcohol level would do it. ---
**Author:** ![Bonum\_Legatum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bonum_legatum/32/6183_2.png) [@Bonum\_Legatum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonum_Legatum)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/32 "2022-07-20T14:50:39Z")
Interesting thread. I always wondered, if rubbing alcohol were all that bad, why people would RUB IT ONTO THEIR SKIN. Question: It is apparently a thing to purchase used whisky barrels from distilleries and rinse them with a bit of water to extract whatever was leached into the wood during aging. My Canadian friends refer to this beverage as “swish”, for obvious reasons. But I’ve also read that this is NOT recommended because the fusel oils tend to concentrate into the wood. Anyone with further knowledge? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/33 "2022-07-21T00:18:36Z")
> [@Bonum\_Legatum](#): > > I always wondered, if rubbing alcohol were all that bad, why people would RUB IT ONTO THEIR SKIN. There are a lot of medical and personal care products that are just fine when used topically, but aren’t something you want to ingest. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/34 "2022-07-21T03:05:06Z")
“The antidote to antifreeze is an ethyl alcohol perfusion !” (back then most antifreeze & windshield wiper fluid brands were mostly methanol) Ethanol is also a treatment for Glycol poisoning, which is what modern antifreeze in coolant is Windscreen treatments still use an alcohol. One way that fatal methanol poisoning occurs is that instead of discarding the methanol straight away, the still operator stores the foreshot, say for cleaning or lighting fires, but then … somehow it gets decided that its ethanol or drinking alcohol , even if they think its wood alcohol or methylated spirits, they dont think its wrong to drink. Another way is to have instructions saying that the first 1% of distillate is methanol, when in fact the still contains more than 1% methanol… It could be 10% … some cheap source of junk for the still may already be cut with methanol. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/35 "2022-07-21T14:45:21Z")
> [@Bonum\_Legatum](#): > > Question: It is apparently a thing to purchase used whisky barrels from distilleries and rinse them with a bit of water to extract whatever was leached into the wood during aging. My Canadian friends refer to this beverage as “swish”, for obvious reasons. But I’ve also read that this is NOT recommended because the fusel oils tend to concentrate into the wood. Anyone with further knowledge? This is what the Jim Beam Distillery does to produce their Devils Cut bourbon. Haven’t heard of anyone being poisoned by it yet. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/36 "2022-07-21T15:20:33Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > There are a lot of medical and personal care products that are just fine when used topically, but aren’t something you want to ingest. You can get isopropyl poisoning from absorption through the skin, but last thing I saw indicated this was less likely than previously thought. The importance of this was in the addition of isopropyl to hot baths, a technique for pain relief and healing aid often used in sports. I’ve heard as little as one cup of rubbing alcohol(what concentration?) in a hot bath(what size bath?) could blind or kill a person(is blindness a symptom of isopropyl alcohol poisoning symptoms?) , apparently the problem would only be the result of much higher concentrations or excessive use. Getting a back rub or treating a sore leg is not considered dangerous use. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/37 "2022-07-21T16:00:36Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > One way that fatal methanol poisoning occurs is that instead of discarding the methanol straight away, the still operator stores the foreshot, say for cleaning or lighting fires, but then … somehow it gets decided that its ethanol or drinking alcohol , even if they think its wood alcohol or methylated spirits, they dont think its wrong to drink. > > Another way is to have instructions saying that the first 1% of distillate is methanol, when in fact the still contains more than 1% methanol… It could be 10% … some cheap source of junk for the still may already be cut with methanol. Once again: > [@Ruken](#): > > Please note that ternary azeotropes are complicated and methanol (if present) can be found in all fractions and, despite its low boiling point, can be more prevalent in the tails. The linked paper shows lower concentration in the heads/foreshot and elevated contraction in the tails. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/38 "2022-07-21T16:07:44Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The importance of this was in the addition of isopropyl to hot baths, a technique for pain relief and healing aid often used in sports. I’ve heard as little as one cup of rubbing alcohol(what concentration?) in a hot bath(what size bath?) could blind or kill a person(is blindness a symptom of isopropyl alcohol poisoning symptoms?) , apparently the problem would only be the result of much higher concentrations or excessive use. It makes me wonder if the isopropyl, in this sort of case, is being vaporized by the hot bath water, and inhaled, rather than absorbed through the skin? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/39 "2022-07-21T16:19:43Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > It makes me wonder if the isopropyl, in this sort of case, is being vaporized by the hot bath water, and inhaled, rather than absorbed through the skin? That’s an interesting thought. I think just one cup in a normal sized bath isn’t that much and it must take more than that to cause a problem, and make it more likely to inhale a significant amount. It would also have the cumulative effect assumed through absorption through the skin. I don’t really have more details. I did have alcohol baths when I was younger to help recover from injuries, and was a bit worried about the cautions, no more than 1/2 a cup, not more than 15 minutes in the bath, no more than once a week (to the best of my recollection). Later on I saw that the problem was overstated but it was still recommended to use caution. I have only used gels containing isopropyl alcohol for a long time, that localizes the application instead of having half your body absorbing the stuff in a bath. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629/40 "2022-07-21T18:38:48Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Please note that ternary azeotropes are complicated and methanol (if present) can be found in all fractions and, despite its low boiling point, can be more prevalent in the tails. One thing I read long long ago said that all these residual chemical variants (present in small quantities in alcoholic beverages) were what caused hangovers by being slow to leave the body - not ethanol itself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-methanol-get-into-alcoholic-beverages/831629.md?page=3)