# How does Microsoft get people to upgrade Office (or anything for that matter)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 14, 2001, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-microsoft-get-people-to-upgrade-office-or-anything-for-that-matter/93216 "2001-11-14T00:18:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-microsoft-get-people-to-upgrade-office-or-anything-for-that-matter/93216/21 "2001-11-15T03:42:53Z")
I think most of the reasons people have mentioned here are bogus - the reason people upgrade is generally because they feel the new package will offer things that make it worth the upgrade. For a while, it was psychological - people were married to the upgrade cycle because for a long time in the computing industry most upgrades WERE worth it. Products weren’t mature, and we were constantly discovering new, valuable features. In the case of Office 2000, I think a big feature for many people was the better HTML integration. For companies with intranets, some of the web publishing features are quite useful. However, Microsoft is worried that people aren’t upgrading like they used to. I haven’t upgraded Office in four years, since I bought Office 97, and I have absolutely no intention to upgrade to Office 2000. My software does everything I need it to do, so why spend the money? More and more people are starting to ‘come around’ to this way of thinking. There are still a significant number of users out there running Windows 95, and by all accounts the rate of upgrades for Windows XP from Windows 2000 is expected to be very low. In face, my company (GE) still has a majority of its computers using Windows NT4, and I believe we have officially dropped off the upgrade bandwagon and cancelled many of our upgrade programs with Microsoft. Too expensive, not enough added benefit. Microsoft’s not the only one facing this problem. Corel, Adobe, you name it. If you inventoried all the owners of Adobe Photoshop, I’ll bet you’ll find a ton of them that never upgraded past Photoshop 4.0, because there was no reason for most of them to upgrade. ---
**Author:** ![donotprodme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@donotprodme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/donotprodme)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-microsoft-get-people-to-upgrade-office-or-anything-for-that-matter/93216/22 "2001-11-15T12:57:58Z")
I am a system builder registered with microsoft and always have the newest technology. Let me tell you the differences become so helpful that its worth upgrading. Office XP pro has voice recognition built in. It has more features too. So the difference between 97 and XP are so great its worth upgrading. However its not that important to upgrade to each new version. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Marcus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-microsoft-get-people-to-upgrade-office-or-anything-for-that-matter/93216/23 "2001-11-15T13:32:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dooku \* > \*\* > Where did you get this bullshit? Since Office97, file formats have \*\*not \*\*changed. StarOffice 5.1 was released **after** Office97. [Cite](http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2673612,00.html). The latest StarOffice 5.2 has filters that are compatible with Word, PPT and XL versions 97 and 2000. [Cite](http://www.sun.com/software/star/staroffice/5.2/details.html;%24sessionid%242RTCIX2RMGRQVAMTA1FU4GQ#filters). > > So, according to you, “some people” believe that Microsoft explicitly changes their file formats to “break” StarOffice filters, even though we haven’t changed our file formats since **before** StarOffice ever came out, and even though StarOffice **does** have the latest filters for Office?\* > > Fighting ignorance, indeed. Sheesh.\*\* Yes, I believe that you are correct. I was aware of this (I was replying to a post from **k2dave** that said exactly this!). I apologize for my lack of clarity - I should not have implied that Star Office itself was broken. I meant only to point out that Star Office is a compatible office suite. The suites of the day that _were_ broken were WordPerfect Office Suite and Lotus Office Suite (IIRC). I was surprised at the forcefullness of your comments, your first in this thread. Your response was as if you were being attacked personally - I meant no such attack. I note that you use the pronoun “we”: I presume that you work for Microsoft. I believe that it would help if you explicity disclose this. (This may be common knowledge around the board - sorry if I’m being a newbie). > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dooku \* > \*\* > …even though StarOffice **does** have the latest filters for Office… > \*\* It’s not quite correct to say that Star Office “have” the filters: because Microsoft refuses to publicly document its proprietary file formats, companies such as Sun (who now own Star Office) have to painstakingly reverse engineer the document formats, in order to provide import and export filters. This may be fair enough for a monopoly company to behave this way - that’s an exercise for the reader - but it also gives Microsoft the ability to break another company’s filters by changing the proprietary file format. By proprietary format, I mean .doc, .dot, .xls, .xlt, .ppt, and so on - the _lingua franca_ of document exchange. ---
**Author:** ![NutMagnet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@NutMagnet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NutMagnet)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-microsoft-get-people-to-upgrade-office-or-anything-for-that-matter/93216/24 "2001-11-15T13:35:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Yarster said: > So how the hell do the sales ever get started? If every business is always trying to save money, I’d think they’d all agree NOT to upgrade and save all that cash… One answer implied in some of the posts, is that buying a new PC automatically provides to the latest version. This is no accident. It is a smart marketing move by Microsoft and hardware vendors are given incentives to do this. Secondly, MS has a sechedule, upon every release of a new version to drop support of the oldest version. I think Windows 95 is officially “unsupported”, and 98 will drop off the list next year. This is a major concern to large corporations, who contract for bulk purchases of software. It is financially cheaper to upgrade to supportable releases than it is to retain older ones. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-microsoft-get-people-to-upgrade-office-or-anything-for-that-matter/93216/25 "2001-11-15T18:53:43Z")
Marcus: > [@](#): > > companies such as Sun (who now own Star Office) have to painstakingly reverse engineer the document formats, in order to provide import and export filters. If you want document filters, you should go to the document filter folks: DataViz. My filters let me translate into and back out of Microsoft application formats flawlessly: to and from WordPro, AmiPro, MacWrite Pro, WordPerfect (Mac and PC), AppleWorks, WordStar, Nisus Writer…or from any of those formats to any of the others…also to and from Excel, Quattro Pro, Lotus 123, AppleWorks spreadsheet, DIF, DBF, SYLK…they don’t do StarOffice, but they can move stuff into and back out of formats that StarOffice can deal with natively (like Word 6 and Excel 5). They don’t quite as of yet let you click on an Oracle database and convert it to MS SQL or convert your Access front end to FileMaker or browser-based Java, but damn they’re good at what they do! ---
**Author:** ![llamasex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bbce88/32.png) [@llamasex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llamasex)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-microsoft-get-people-to-upgrade-office-or-anything-for-that-matter/93216/26 "2001-11-15T19:18:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Balthisar \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by AHunter3 \* > > \*\*But then I start to think about talking paper clips and macro viruses and you know Excel 5.0 isn’t all that bad, and with MacLink Plus it’s easy to translate newer formats, so… \*\* > > From what I’ve seen so far in the, uh, pre-release version of Office X, there _is_ no damned paper clip! This “feature” is gone! I hope the “real” (not “non-released”) version keeps it this way. \*\* IIRC (and I think I do) it is there, but turned off by default. ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-microsoft-get-people-to-upgrade-office-or-anything-for-that-matter/93216/27 "2001-11-15T19:18:46Z")
Dooku, I don’t expect Word 2000 to be checked for compatibility against Windows XP, an operating system that hasn’t been release yet. But I damn well expect Windows XP to be checked against at least 5 years worth of previous versions of Word. FWIW, this does the same thing with Excel when I close it, and now that I installed Word XP yesterday, the same thing with Word XP. What I primarily want with an OS upgrade is stability enhancement (just in case you do work for Microsoft, let them know), and I really have no use for minor application upgrades. I did not buy Office XP and will continue to use the older products with Word XP because I don’t use them that often. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Gazoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/67e7ee/32.png) [@The\_Great\_Gazoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Gazoo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-microsoft-get-people-to-upgrade-office-or-anything-for-that-matter/93216/28 "2001-11-15T19:21:01Z")
Marketing. Microsoft is probably one of the best marketers in the world. I would guess that, compared with other technology companies, the percentage of their budget spent on marketing is much higher than any other technology company. Having said that, it doesn’t seem like they are doing as much with XP as with earlier Win products - Win 3.1, Win 95, Win 98. Probably because the antitrust case has Microsoft in the spotlight 24/7 and the controversies surrounding XP licensing. If you have good marketing, you don’t need a good product - see “Pet Rocks”. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-microsoft-get-people-to-upgrade-office-or-anything-for-that-matter/93216/29 "2001-11-15T19:41:07Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Marcus \* \*\* > [@](#): > > I was surprised at the forcefullness of your comments, your first in this thread. Your response was as if you were being attacked personally - I meant no such attack. I note that you use the pronoun “we”: I presume that you work for Microsoft. I believe that it would help if you explicity disclose this. (This may be common knowledge around the board - sorry if I’m being a newbie). > \*\* No, that’s my fault for taking it so personally - I do work there, check my profile. [QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Marcus \* \*\* > [@](#): > > It’s not quite correct to say that Star Office “have” the filters: because Microsoft refuses to publicly document its proprietary file formats, companies such as Sun (who now own Star Office) have to painstakingly reverse engineer the document formats, in order to provide import and export filters. This may be fair enough for a monopoly company to behave this way - that’s an exercise for the reader - but it also gives Microsoft the ability to break another company’s filters by changing the proprietary file format. By proprietary format, I mean .doc, .dot, .xls, .xlt, .ppt, and so on - the _lingua franca_ of document exchange. \*\* We’re not the only company with proprietary file formats. EX: there’s no Freelance for Windows converter for PPT b/c we have to reverse-engineer their file format and we don’t have time to painstakingly do so. It took a long time to get a FileMaker converter for Access for the same reason. Back in the olden days, Lotus refused to help us with an XLS converter. Can you imagine what would happen if XLS, DOC and PPT were not proprietary? What do you think the fidelity would be like if you tried to open “Bob’s shareware DOC file” into Word? How about a PPT file created with a third party software company from Japan? :shudder: Part of it is to protect our intellectual property, but another part is maintaining fidelity. (Graphics formats are totally different / more simple in their architecture, which is why they are open-sourced, although there are plenty of bogus, poorly-written JPG, GIF BMPs, etc out there). **DPWhite** , I totally agree - you’re preaching to the choir. The Office group constantly complains about the lack of legacy testing being done by the Windows group. Believe me, they know how we feel. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Marcus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2001, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-microsoft-get-people-to-upgrade-office-or-anything-for-that-matter/93216/30 "2001-11-16T11:09:17Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Dooku \* > \*\* > What do you think the fidelity would be like if you tried to open “Bob’s shareware DOC file” into Word?_\* Well, the fidelity seems to be OK with the world’s most popular “open source” document format - HTML. **AHunter3** , thanks for the tip about DataViz. ---
**Author:** ![DVous\_Means](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@DVous\_Means](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DVous_Means)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2001, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-microsoft-get-people-to-upgrade-office-or-anything-for-that-matter/93216/31 "2001-11-16T13:20:39Z")
So, if Microsoft hasn’t changed its \*.DOC format since Office97, how come my shareware file viewer (FM View) will read Word97 DOC’s OK, but shows all the embedded code when I view a Word2000 DOC? As far as the viewer is concerned, both are DOC files, hence both should display in a similar manner if the format is the same. But they don’t… Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Drake\_Christensen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/96bed5/32.png) [@Drake\_Christensen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drake_Christensen)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2001, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-microsoft-get-people-to-upgrade-office-or-anything-for-that-matter/93216/32 "2001-11-17T08:25:20Z")
FYI, here’s another instance where Microsoft tells reporters the latest version is more reliable: [http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/stories/story/0,10738,2820081,00.html](http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/stories/story/0,10738,2820081,00.html) XP is reportedly 10-30 times more stable. Should telling a reporter this sort of info be considered part of the marketing strategy? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-microsoft-get-people-to-upgrade-office-or-anything-for-that-matter/93216.md?page=1)