# How does one address a 'Sir'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 21, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660 "2009-10-21T21:09:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/61 "2009-10-23T02:21:59Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > I worked at least 5 different customer service jobs in three different industries, and for all of them male customers were addressed as Sir, ladies as Maam. List them. Not doubting you, just interested to see if they form a pattern. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/62 "2009-10-23T02:50:48Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > List them. Not doubting you, just interested to see if they form a pattern. 1. Croupier in a casino 2. Manager of a mobil petrol station and convenience store 3. Shift manager of sole charge Shell petrol Station (next to the beach) looked at pretty girls in bikinis in Summer 4. Bar Man 5. Shop Assistant Here in Singapore I unfailingly get called Sir all the time in restaurants and shops ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/63 "2009-10-23T02:59:57Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Jeeze - you Australians have no manners. I worked at least 5 different customer service jobs in three different industries, and for all of them male customers were addressed as Sir, ladies as Maam. You’re from New Zealand aren’t you? When I lived there I didn’t notice anyone being called sir or ma’am regularly. And I certainly didn’t when I was working in customer service jobs (including service station and aircraft charter.) ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/64 "2009-10-23T03:11:32Z")
[quote=“1920s Style “Death Ray”, post:63, topic:514660”] You’re from New Zealand aren’t you? When I lived there I didn’t notice anyone being called sir or ma’am regularly. And I certainly didn’t when I was working in customer service jobs (including service station and aircraft charter.) [/QUOTE] Yep I’m a Kiwi. Wow, Really? When were you there last? I totally grew up around customer service (my father was a bar manager) and its normal for me. Anytime I wanted to address a specific person, if I didn’t know their name it would be sir. Perhaps part of the reason was that I was young, and many of the people I talked to were at least middle aged, so mate would have been inappropriate? Maybe also I’m just weird and out of step (this wouldn’t be the first time) ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/65 "2009-10-23T03:15:07Z")
Casinos always maintain an aura of class and that doesn’t suprise me. I can’t think that I’ve been “sirred” at a petrol station in my life, let alone one next to a beach and this surprises me. Bar man it wouldn’t surprise me at a posh place, but would at anywhere informal or local (unless you were dealing with a complaint or something where enforced politeness applies). And Singapore is a whole other ball of wax. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/66 "2009-10-23T03:32:02Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Casinos always maintain an aura of class and that doesn’t suprise me. I can’t think that I’ve been “sirred” at a petrol station in my life, let alone one next to a beach and this surprises me. Bar man it wouldn’t surprise me at a posh place, but would at anywhere informal or local (unless you were dealing with a complaint or something where enforced politeness applies). > > And Singapore is a whole other ball of wax. The bar was a small local pub - even some of the regulars I would “sir” as they walked in, as a formal “welcome in tonight” Note - I didn’t always use sir / maam, depending on mood and demeanor of customers - but certainly more often than not. Also hotels upon checkin, banks (until they had my particulars) I would be Sirred ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/67 "2009-10-23T04:58:01Z")
[quote=“1920s Style “Death Ray”, post:63, topic:514660”] You’re from New Zealand aren’t you? When I lived there I didn’t notice anyone being called sir or ma’am regularly. [/QUOTE] I’d agree with this from my own experience of living in New Zealand. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/68 "2009-10-23T05:22:48Z")
Just out of curiosity - Cunctator and Death Ray, which part of New Zealand were you living, and did you notice any regional variation at all? I am kind of intrigued now - I always thought the country was pretty homogenous in such things. There is of course the possibility that my mind is playing tricks - it has been ten years since I’ve lived there. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/69 "2009-10-23T05:47:20Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Just out of curiosity - Cunctator and Death Ray, which part of New Zealand were you living, and did you notice any regional variation at all? > > I am kind of intrigued now - I always thought the country was pretty homogenous in such things. There is of course the possibility that my mind is playing tricks - it has been ten years since I’ve lived there. I moved from Palmerston North to Dunedin when I was eight and lived there till I moved to Queenstown at age twenty. I moved to Wanaka shortly afterward then came over to Australia in 2000 when I was twenty six. So while I was old enough to notice, I was staying in the same part of the country. I vaguely recall being supposed to use customers names if we noted them on their bank card when I worked at a Mobil service station, but not many of us did it, and I don’t recall being asked to use sir and ma’am by management. I don’t doubt your experience at all, there are definitely people who use sir and ma’am and obviously you’re one of them, but overall I feel it’s uncommon. Edit: I don’t normally use mate, and definitely wouldn’t in a customer service position, but I find that using names or titles is generally not necessary at all. Most of the time it is obvious who you’re talking to. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/70 "2009-10-23T05:53:25Z")
> [@](#): > > **Princhester** : And the whole idea of anyone calling their father “sir” here is just, well, we know you Americans do it but, here, jeebus that would be beyond strange. You’d just call him “Dad”. Most Americans usually call their fathers “Dad” too. But often in responding to them, we will answer, “Yes, sir” or “No, sir.” With _some_ of us, such courtesies are drilled into us by parents. If we answer a simple “Yes” to our mothers, often they will say “Yes _what_?” to remind us that we left off the “M’am.” In some areas, we also use “Sir” and “M’am” to anyone older or anyone we wish to show respect to. It pleased me to use “Sir” with my father. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/71 "2009-10-23T05:57:42Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Just out of curiosity - Cunctator and Death Ray, which part of New Zealand were you living, and did you notice any regional variation at all? Wellington, but I did travel around the country a bit, and no, I didn’t notice much regional variation. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/72 "2009-10-23T06:11:43Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Jeeze - you Australians have no manners. I worked at least 5 different customer service jobs in three different industries, and for all of them male customers were addressed as Sir, ladies as Maam. About my experience in NZ too – I’ve worked retail in a Garden Centre (as a kid) and in comic and games shops as an adult. OK, not too many “Sirs” and “Ma’am” in the comic or games shops – but I’d use it for anyone over 40 looking lost and staring at chess sets. 🙂 Being over 40 myself these days I sometimes get “Sir” from retail staff… makes me feel old. ☹ > [@](#): > > And a third on the getting out of the car and going to talk to the police man if you get stopped. I would actually go so far as to say that if you stayed in your car you are going to be viewed as suspicious, or at the very least be more likely to get a ticket Definitely – the vibe from my childhood at least was that it would be downright disrespectful to stay in the car if a cop pulled you over. You got out and meet him (always a “him” back then) and usually moved towards the side of the road so that neither of you were standing in traffic. The exception (these days) would be a mandatory “drink driving” stop – where they pull everyone over, you roll down the window and say “Evening Officer” along with your name and address (which they’re allowed to ask you – for US Dopers) into the little electronic do-hicky and he or she says “Thank you” ('cos your breath isn’t over the limit – unless really dumb) and you drive off. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/73 "2009-10-23T06:37:36Z")
Thanks Apollyon - at least I no longer feel like I’m going crazy. And wow - I am really pleased by how many New Zealander’s there are here at the dope. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/74 "2009-10-23T07:11:17Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Thanks Apollyon - at least I no longer feel like I’m going crazy. And wow - I am really pleased by how many New Zealander’s there are here at the dope. Interestingly, most of us don’t seem to live in New Zealand. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/75 "2009-10-23T07:16:21Z")
[quote=“1920s Style “Death Ray”, post:74, topic:514660”] Interestingly, most of us don’t seem to live in New Zealand. [/QUOTE] Isn’t that sad? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6bbea6/32.png) [@The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Seventh_Deadly_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/76 "2009-10-23T07:44:41Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Most Americans usually call their fathers “Dad” too. But often in responding to them, we will answer, “Yes, sir” or “No, sir.” With _some_ of us, such courtesies are drilled into us by parents. If we answer a simple “Yes” to our mothers, often they will say “Yes _what_?” to remind us that we left off the “M’am.” Having to say “yessir” to Dad is not universal practice in the US, btw, although it’s not uncommon. My parents never got on this particular power trip, thank God, though lots of the kids from the nearby Air Force base had to do this. Whenever I see people making their kids say “yes, sir,” or “yes, ma’am,” I think, “Wow, what an asshole.” But that’s just me. Maybe I should move to Australia. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/77 "2009-10-23T08:26:36Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > (And a man travelling by himself always sits in the front seat of a taxi – it would be rude to assert your social superiority by sitting in the back.) In Spain there’s locations where passengers can’t sit in the front seat (high crime areas); there’s others where they only sit in the front seat if there’s no room otherwise and the driver allows it. In general that’s viewed as the driver’s “private space,” you don’t invade it uninvited. Just pointing out how once more what’s “common courtesy” in one country is an insult in another. ---
**Author:** ![Daerlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Daerlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daerlyn)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/78 "2009-10-23T11:28:06Z")
Oh, it’s not a power trip with my Dad - in fact, he hates it when I do it. As noted, I use it to indicate that I feel he’s getting a little autocratic. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/79 "2009-10-23T13:17:52Z")
> [@The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](#): > > Having to say “yessir” to Dad is not universal practice in the US, btw, although it’s not uncommon. My parents never got on this particular power trip, thank God, though lots of the kids from the nearby Air Force base had to do this. > > Whenever I see people making their kids say “yes, sir,” or “yes, ma’am,” I think, “Wow, what an asshole.” But that’s just me. Maybe I should move to Australia. You’re not alone, and I’m a Southerner. Everybody I know who _wasn’t_ forced to do this as a child thinks it’s weird and dickish. Everybody I know who _was_, was in a military family. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660/80 "2009-10-23T14:52:59Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > “Ringo” is just as much his legal name as “Richard” is. In common law countries it’s generally permitted to call yourself whatever you want so long as it isn’t done for fraudulent purposes. Which name or names appears on his various legal and identifying documents is anyone’s guess; I wouldn’t be surprised if he had some ID documents which referred to him as Ringo Starr and some as Richard Starkey. This is not exactly right. You have a common law right to call yourself what you want, and you have a common law right to change your legal name. But you still have only _one_ legal name. You can have assumed names for professional purposes, but so far as the law is concerned, your legal name is the one you were born with, _unless you have taken steps to indicate an **intent** to change your legal name_. If Ringo’s legal documents – passport, contracts, bank statements – all say “Richard Starkey,” then his legal name is Richard Starkey and Ringo Starr is just a stage name or professional name, not his legal name. If the documents don’t match, then there may be some unanswered legal question about which one is his legal name, but that doesn’t change the fact that he can only have one legal name. If it became an issue, a court would look at the evidence and decide. Actually, it probably wouldn’t be that difficult, because the court would simply ask him – “Do you intend to change your legal name to ‘Ringo Starr’?” and if he said “yes,” then the court would find that he had changed his legal name. If he said, “no,” the could would find that Ringo Starr is not his legal name. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-address-a-sir/514660.md?page=5)