# How does one advance to the Papacy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 25, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-advance-to-the-papacy/732503 "2015-09-25T19:12:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marion\_Wormer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d07c76/32.png) [@Marion\_Wormer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marion_Wormer)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-advance-to-the-papacy/732503/21 "2015-10-02T03:28:12Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > I wish he would update it (some people add annotations to the existing video). The last Pope picked a new name and you can be married and non-celibate and become _a priest_, by being Eastern Rite, converting from a religion like Anglicanism, or being previously married (that last one is a rare exception). A lot of this is on a case-by-case basis, and not really doctrine so much as practice. Generally this may however limit your potential for advancement. > . You can also be a Lutheran minister that converts to Catholicism and become a priest even if you’re married, but you can’t marry again. Anglican churches and Lutheran churches are sometimes called liturgical denominations and share some commonality in liturgy with the catholic church, even though they have doctrinal differences. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2015, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-advance-to-the-papacy/732503/22 "2015-10-05T12:39:38Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-advance-to-the-papacy/732503/23 "2015-10-05T17:36:24Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > I mean, I understand the basic hierarchy (priests, bishops, archbishops, cardinals, etc.), and how the election in the College of Cardinals works. Taking a moment to … er … pontificate… There’s not a supervisory hierarchy that exists as you describe. The direct hierarchy of ecclesiastical superiors is: - Deacons, priests, and auxiliary bishops, whose ecclesiastical superior is - a bishop or archbishop who is the Ordinary of a diocese, whose ecclesiastical superior is - The Roman Pontiff That’s it. It’s not true in any but a ceremonial sense to say that an archbishop is the boss of a bishop, and a cardinal is the boss of them both. Every diocese has one Ordinary, who is a bishop. If the diocese is a metropolitan diocese, then it’s called an archdiocese and its bishop is called an archbishop. But the archbishop just bosses his own archdiocese, not the neighboring dioceses. In each diocese, the Ordinary is the top boss. He bosses all the priests, deacons, and any auxiliary bishops assigned to help him. (Interestingly enough, an auxiliary bishop is sometimes called a ‘titular’ bishop, because every bishop has to be, even if in name only, the boss of some diocese, so an auxiliary bishop, and bishops that work in Vatican departments, are given in-name-only responsibility for dioceses that no longer exist; Bishop Denis J. Madden is an auxiliary bishop of the Archdiocese of Baltimore and his real job is to assist Archbishop Lori, the boss of the archdiocese. But he’s technically also the bishop of an abandoned diocese in Alegria called Baia.) The diocesan bishop is subordinate only to the Pope. While there are episcopal conferences of bishops for countries that set norms like what holy days may be moved to the nearest Sunday, these are not binding on bishops; a bishop is free to make his own rules (consistent with canon law). Similarly, a cardinal is a mark of distinction and an extra job, but it’s not a supervisory position over bishops and archbishops. I say all this because the phrasing you used – “basic hierarchy (priests, bishops, archbishops, cardinals, etc” – suggested that perhaps you were picturing a ladder of authority with those ranks as steps. That’s not it at all. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-advance-to-the-papacy/732503/24 "2015-10-06T15:24:17Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > (Besides that’s NOT how the Second Coming works…) I must know! And besides, this is the Straight Dope, where ignorance is fought every day. How DOES the Second Coming work? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-advance-to-the-papacy/732503/25 "2015-10-06T16:35:44Z")
Note that, while what **Bricker** laid out is the formal hierarchy, there’s also an informal hierarchy with more steps in it. Even though an archbishop or cardinal doesn’t have any more official authority than any other bishop, in practice, if an archbishop or cardinal says something, they’re more likely to be heeded. Similarly, although any baptized male in principle can be made Pope, in practice it’s always someone who’s already a cardinal. Oh, and there are also some odd details like who picks the new bishop of a diocese, if there’s a vacancy (most often due to death). That’s done under authority of the Pope, and he could directly pick the successor if he chose, but in practice it’s done by a semi-official structure at a lower level. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-advance-to-the-papacy/732503/26 "2015-10-06T17:18:08Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > Nope. NO GIRLZ ALLOWED! > > [Pope Callixtus III in 1455 was the last non-priest to be chosen as pope.](http://www.livescience.com/27751-why-women-cant-be-pope.html) If a non-priest becomes pope, they will quickly fix that and ordain him and move him up the ranks to bishop. Pope Callixtus III was a priest. > **[Pope Callixtus III](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Callixtus_III#Priesthood)** > > Pope Callixtus III (Italian: Callisto III, Valencian: Calixt III, Spanish: Calixto III; 31 December 1378 – 6 August 1458), born Alfonso de Borgia (Valencian: Alfons de Borja), was head of the Catholic Church and ruler of the Papal States from 8 April 1455 to his death, in August 1458. > Borgia spent his early career as a professor of law at the University of Lleida; he later served as a diplomat for the kings of Aragon. He became a tutor for King Alfonso V's illegitimate son Ferdinand. After arr... Your article is odd, they claim Callixtus III was the last Non-priest in 1455, but the “last priest elected who was not a cardinal was Urban VI in 1378”. Actually, Pope Leo X was the last Non-priest to be elected Pope. However, he was a Cardinal, and was ordained priest, and consecrated as bishop just before becoming Pope. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-advance-to-the-papacy/732503/27 "2015-10-06T17:53:23Z")
Explanation is that you don’t have to be priested to be a cardinal. And of course for plum goodies handed out, most monks obviously weren’t priests, but for _their_ own superiors an abbot didn’t even have to be a monk. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-advance-to-the-papacy/732503/28 "2015-10-06T19:49:50Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Explanation is that you don’t have to be priested to be a cardinal. > And of course for plum goodies handed out, most monks obviously weren’t priests, but for _their_ own superiors an abbot didn’t even have to be a monk. Cardinal-Infante Ferdinand of Austria is a good example. He was never ordained a priest but was made a cardinal (and was simultaneously a prince, “infante,” of the Spanish throne). ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-advance-to-the-papacy/732503/29 "2015-10-06T20:53:51Z")
> [@NoCoolUserName](#): > > I must know! And besides, this is the Straight Dope, where ignorance is fought every day. > > How DOES the Second Coming work? Better if your a woman. (ducks) > [@Claverhouse](#): > > Explanation is that you don’t have to be priested to be a cardinal. > And of course for plum goodies handed out, most monks obviously weren’t priests, but for _their_ own superiors an abbot didn’t even have to be a monk. I’m completely lost. All this catholic hierarchy stuff makes no sense when I don’t know the difference in half the terms. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-advance-to-the-papacy/732503/30 "2015-10-06T21:15:10Z")
You may want to read up on the Orthodox, which orders and sacraments are accounted fully valid by Rome, both Russian and Greek and all the smaller Orthodox others; although not in communion. The Eastern Orthodox are not the same as the smaller Eastern Catholic communions such as The Maronite, The Chaldean, The Syriac, The Coptic and The Byzantine, to name but a few, who _are_ part of The Holy See. _[Archpriests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archpriest) and [Protopresbyters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protopresbyter) are styled as the Very Reverend (V. Rev.), while [Archimandrites](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimandrite) can be styled as the Very Reverend (V. Rev.) or as the Right Reverend (Rt. Rev.)._ [\*\* Wiki\*\*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priesthood_%28Orthodox_Church%29) ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-advance-to-the-papacy/732503/31 "2015-10-06T21:31:57Z")
> [@NoCoolUserName](#): > > I must know! And besides, this is the Straight Dope, where ignorance is fought every day. > > How DOES the Second Coming work? The Second Coming is the one where Jesus comes back throned in glory in the clouds to judge the quick and the dead, in other words Judgment Day. According to all Church teaching and the NT. And a question re the hierarchy: isn’t a full Council superior to the Pope? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-advance-to-the-papacy/732503/32 "2015-10-06T21:54:12Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > The Second Coming is the one where Jesus comes back throned in glory in the clouds to judge the quick and the dead, in other words Judgment Day. According to all Church teaching and the NT. > > And a question re the hierarchy: isn’t a full Council superior to the Pope? No. The Code of Canon Law specifically provides, at Can. 338: > [@](#): > > §1 It is for the Roman Pontiff alone to convoke an ecumenical council, preside over it personally or through others, transfer, suspend, or dissolve a council, and to approve its decrees. > > §2. It is for the Roman Pontiff to determine the matters to be treated in a council and establish the order to be observed in a council. To the questionsproposed by the Roman Pontiff, the council fathers can add others which are to be approved by the Roman Pontiff. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-advance-to-the-papacy/732503/33 "2015-10-06T22:17:18Z")
[**Conciliarism**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conciliarism) Basically it was a pale shadow of the conflict between monarchy and parliamentarianism — with faults on both sides. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-advance-to-the-papacy/732503.md?page=1)