# How does one deal with not being 100% certain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2017, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500 "2017-08-24T00:24:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/61 "2017-08-29T01:01:01Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > …For the obvious example I can be entirely certain that everyone on the internet except myself is a bot… How can I be certain that _I_ am not a bot? Perhaps the purpose of the simulated universe that we all live in is to generate page clicks for a tech IPO. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/62 "2017-08-30T05:18:16Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Well, we know for absolute certain that _some_ things are simulations. For the obvious example I can be entirely certain that everyone on the internet except myself is a bot. > > The only reason I can think of to be concerned about being in a simulation is fear of a capricious creator. (Think ‘The Sims’.) This is exactly equivalent to believing in gods, mind you. The fear lies in being alone in the world with a bunch of programs, knowing that the beings in front aren’t real but illusions. Never having any real connection and the massive sense of alienation you get from knowing they aren’t real. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/63 "2017-08-30T09:26:03Z")
How is living in a simulation any different from reality? If we are part of a simulation then that IS our reality. I know that sounds trite but I don’t have all the 50-cent philosophy words to better dress up what is a pretty simple concept. What you see, what you hear, what you think… That is reality. Makes no difference that the human mind can ponder alternate theories of existence. The very ability to ponder such things is also part of what reality is. The ideas themselves are part of reality but only insomuch as they are functions of our extant minds. If “this” is what\*\*\* is\*\*\* how can you make distinctions between whatever “this” is and something else? “This” is the whole she-bang. “This” is all there is. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/64 "2017-08-30T09:34:13Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I get that for the little things like no knowing about car crashes or where the sun will rise it’s fine. But as for the nature of reality and whether other people exist or are just objects of my mind is a bit more troubling. People being “objects of your mind” is no different than reality. Because if “it’s all in your mind” is true, then that IS reality. That IS other peoples existence. Why, and how, do you even make a distinction between “reality” and “reality”? It’s one way or the other (or perhaps even another way) and whatever way that is, IS. Whatever way it is, it’s completely real. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/65 "2017-08-30T17:50:49Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > The fear lies in being alone in the world with a bunch of programs, knowing that the beings in front aren’t real but illusions. Never having any real connection and the massive sense of alienation you get from knowing they aren’t real. I suppose we need to clarify what we mean by “simulation”. I’ve been talking about a form of simulation where everything, _including yourself_, is operating based on physics. In the case of a simulation these physics are the result of deliberate action - they were created by an extrauniversal entity with tape around the bridge of its glasses. But within this created universe there’s nothing particularly special about you; you’re just another entity within the simulated universe. Under this model the people you interact with are no less real than you are, and so there’s no cause for concern. I see now that when you think of simulation, you think of it as playing D&D. You are operating a player character, whose thoughts and actions are backed by something ‘real’ - the mind of the ‘player’. And you’re concerned that all your interactions might be with mere NPCs. Which of course raises the question of what’s operating the NPCs. In the average tabletop game they’re generally operated by the DM - so there’s a real entity backing them. Or perhaps what you’re interacting with is another player’s character, in which case they’re still backed by something real. But not all NPCs are backed by something ‘real’; in computer games they’re backed by computer code; AI. (Some have really _stupid_ AIs, yes -‘Welcome to Corneria!’-, but it’s still AI.) If this is the situation you’re imagining, then you’re making something like a solipsism argument - you’re imagining that you’re the only real entity in a crowd of sims. In which case my response is as it was to solipsists - at least you have an active fantasy life/are playing a really neat game! ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/66 "2017-09-02T23:14:00Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > People being “objects of your mind” is no different than reality. Because if “it’s all in your mind” is true, then that IS reality. That IS other peoples existence. Why, and how, do you even make a distinction between “reality” and “reality”? It’s one way or the other (or perhaps even another way) and whatever way that is, IS. > > Whatever way it is, it’s completely real. Because them being objects of my mind mean that they aren’t real but figments, that I am alone in the world. Making friends and relationships with them would be like doing that with my toaster. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/67 "2017-09-03T00:16:33Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Because them being objects of my mind mean that they aren’t real but figments, that I am alone in the world. Making friends and relationships with them would be like doing that with my toaster. [Ahhh! So you are a waffle man!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRq_SAuQDec) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/68 "2017-09-03T01:17:50Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Like the video says, we cannot know with total certainty that we aren't living in a simulation or that reality is some kind of mental construct. It's a very lonely and isolating feeling that is rooted in some truth, especially considering how truth is a representation of reality and we seem to value it so much. So what then is truth and meaning if the world happens to just be a figment of your mind? What then? How do we deal with not having total certainty of what seems like a foundation for the rest of our knowledge? Use abductive reasoning when you can’t be certain about things that are important, and don’t waste your time fretting about certainty over things that are not important. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/69 "2017-09-03T01:27:46Z")
I just live. Whether we’re in a simulation, or a figment of another being’s dreams, there’s little we can do about it. We might as well just appreciate that we’re here. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/70 "2017-09-03T04:30:18Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Like the video says, we cannot know with total certainty that we aren't living in a simulation or that reality is some kind of mental construct. It's a very lonely and isolating feeling that is rooted in some truth, especially considering how truth is a representation of reality and we seem to value it so much. So what then is truth and meaning if the world happens to just be a figment of your mind? What then? How do we deal with not having total certainty of what seems like a foundation for the rest of our knowledge? 1. Every day you do things that involve uncertainty. Flying on an airplane? Chance of crash and death. Eat food? Chance of food poisoning. Walk down stars? Chance of fall and severe injury. At some point you have to plug on and carry on. 2. Even if the world IS a simulation, what are you going to do about it? If it can’t be helped, why not live on? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/71 "2017-09-03T22:38:41Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Oh, trust me, you don’t want to talk to a programmer. They’ll never tell you what you want to hear, assuming they’re comprehensible at all, and if they promise they’ll get right on that and fix a problem, they’re lying to you to get you to go away. > > Cite: I’m a programmer. I was evaluating EDA systems once, and the salesman for the internal tools from a large company up for sale told me that if we had any modification requests we could contact the developers directly. Since I used to manage a set of EDA tools developed internally by another large company, this one immediately got knocked out of consideration. As a simulator writer I personally don’t believe we live in a simulation due to the lack of bugs. ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/72 "2017-09-03T23:28:44Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > As a simulator writer I personally don’t believe we live in a simulation due to the lack of bugs. My life is \*\*\*entirely \*\*\*bugs. (Unless the designer has applied the old formula ‘Rename the bugs and describe them as features’). Just last week, I was making breakfast (Mrs Wallaby was away, so it was just me). Let’s see - 2 slices of bread, a few mushrooms, 2 eggs, some swiss cheese - oh, yeah - this is going to be good. Grab the carton of eggs from the fridge - as the fridge door closes, it just touches the egg carton - grab, fumble, aaargh! Result - no more eggs. That’s a bug. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/73 "2017-09-04T02:27:02Z")
Of course it is happening inside your head, **Machinaforce** , but why on earth should that mean that it is not real? ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/74 "2017-09-09T04:19:32Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Of course it is happening inside your head, **Machinaforce** , but why on earth should that mean that it is not real? Because people being figments of my mind means they aren’t real. Meaning whatever positive feelings they have for me are a lie, and the same with me for them. Anything I desire in the world and anything I want to achieve would be meaningless since it’s just a mental creation, and it would not last. That’s the danger and threat of this being just in my head or my creation. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/75 "2017-09-09T04:34:25Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m not totally sure about how to deal with uncertainty. Where exactly are you and what is your precise velocity vector? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/76 "2017-09-09T05:06:52Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Because people being figments of my mind means they aren’t real. Meaning whatever positive feelings they have for me are a lie, and the same with me for them. Anything I desire in the world and anything I want to achieve would be meaningless since it’s just a mental creation, and it would not last. > > That’s the danger and threat of this being just in my head or my creation. You worry too much. Don’t worry. Be happy. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/77 "2017-09-09T08:23:48Z")
There are two ways to put to rest the solipsism argument IMO. This is completely while conceding we cannot _know_ our reality is real. The first is pragmatically. For example, we feel physical pain. Whether that pain is an “illusion” or not, I don’t like it. Taking reality at face value, there are actions I can take to reduce my pain. Assuming it is an illusion doesn’t tell me anything, because, in itself, it has zero predictive power. The other is logically. While we tend to think of “real” or “illusion” as attributes something can have, that doesn’t make sense when you follow it through. For example, can _everything_ be an illusion: no “Zion” outside, or entity dreaming this existence? I would say no; that what we mean by illusion is a relative term and it’s meaningless to say everything is an illusion, with nothing you could call real whatsoever. Framed like this, we see that the question of whether our universe is real is asking whether there is some external reality, or asking whether there is some better interpretation of events than our current one of taking events at face value. But this speculation is Occams-able – we have no reason to suppose an external reality or better interpretation exist, and as previously-mentioned such hypotheses as yet have no predictive power. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/78 "2017-09-09T08:54:41Z")
It goes beyond questions of simulation, though I personally find the Trilemna argument unconvincing. It fails the completeness test and provides no argument as to why any designed simulation would benefit from the cst of modeling self-aware consciousness in billions of virtual avatars. But questions of certainty run far deeper than that. The core dilemma has always been how to determine the relationship between what is perceived and what is real (or even whether “real” is a meaningful designation.) There have only ever been 2 escapes from solipsism: ignorance and a conscious disregard for proof. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/79 "2017-09-09T09:53:05Z")
> [@Spiritus\_Mundi](#): > > There have only ever been 2 escapes from solipsism: ignorance and a conscious disregard for proof. Was this aimed at me? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500/80 "2017-09-09T17:44:26Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Because people being figments of my mind means they aren’t real. Meaning whatever positive feelings they have for me are a lie, and the same with me for them. Anything I desire in the world and anything I want to achieve would be meaningless since it’s just a mental creation, and it would not last. > > That’s the danger and threat of this being just in my head or my creation. :smack: I guess you’re not a Harry Potter fan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deal-with-not-being-100-certain/794500.md?page=5)