# How does one define sexual freedom? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 21, 2017, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412 "2017-10-21T05:40:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/41 "2017-10-25T16:13:09Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > Serial freedom is like freedom of speech: It doesn’t really exist. Nonsense. You can choose cornflakes or Cocoa Puffs or oatmeal or Froot Loops or whatever else. Nobody is stopping you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/42 "2017-10-25T19:29:55Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Nonsense. You can choose cornflakes or Cocoa Puffs or oatmeal or Froot Loops or whatever else. Nobody is stopping you. 😃 Well those who believe in determinism suggest that the “choice” has been made by you already. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/43 "2017-10-25T19:31:45Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > As you are seeing, choosing to believe in false absolutes makes it easy to _decide_. But then it makes it hard to actually \*live \*because the world keeps failing to conform to your mistaken absolutes. > > As specifically to sex, adolescent males idolize it and spend much of HS and college exaggerating to one another just how much they’re getting. If you haven’t figured out by now that most of them are lying and most males that age are clueless, jerks, or both, I don’t know how much more I can add. As you now know, many people have lots using **Lemur866** ’s approach. Others, such as priests and guys who work on ships, have essentially zero. Everyone survives. Sex is not a biological need like breathing or eating or sleeping. Sex is a desire, like beer, entertainment, or air conditioning. > > Big picture: > An 80 year life consists of about eleventy jillion decision points. At each and every one of them you (any you) has an opportunity to end up in a completely different place by the end of the road. The truth is you’ll only take one path out of the 2[sup](eleventy jillion)[/sup] possibilities. Dwelling on max-performing any one aspect of your life, much less all of them, is a recipe for paralyzed indecision. You’d damn near do better to simply wake up each day and roll some dice: 2=quit job, 3=walk out on SO, 4=move to Alaska, 5=???, 6, 7, 8=eat & go to work like always, 9=move to Florida, 10=???, 11=??? 12=move to Thailand. > > One of the very satisfying things about getting older (I’m 59) is recognizing that all the agonizing I did over choosing the right path back when I was in college and such amounted to nearly a hill of beans and I don’t have to keep trying to drive by looking into the far future. The far future is much too contingent for human planning. Avoid doing near-term gross stupids and it’ll all work out OK. > > There is almost no significant decision I made in my life that > A) I was actually qualified to make that decision OR > B) it worked out as I expected. > > In almost every case what really happened was > A) I had no clue what factors actually mattered for that decision and was working mostly off guesswork & fantasy _with no awareness of my own cluelessness_ AND > B) Although I executed on my plans well, the longer-term outcome was utterly different because unpredictable shit just keeps happening. > > Try a little Zen: take responsibility for the little things and let the big things happen as they may. We’re not each Captains of our own ship on the open ocean. Instead we’re all paddling our little canoe in a raging river. The river will take you along its course at a speed of its choosing whether you like that or not. You can pick sorta where you go within the banks and sorta which way you’re pointed while you get there. Either way you gotta keep moving because the game is played on a rapidly moving and continuously changing surface. By continuously morphing players, including yourself. > > IOW “Building a life around absolutes” better be made of pretty flexible “absolutes.” Except the seer guy seems to think that you are superior for not needing others to fulfill your desire, along with a few other things on his list. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/44 "2017-10-25T20:44:27Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Except the seer guy seems to think that you are superior for not needing others to fulfill your desire, along with a few other things on his list. You asked me elsewhere how I dismissed this dude. I’ll answer here: so what that he thinks you are superior for not needing others to fulfill your desire? I think he’s inferior for not needing others; what now? I’m literally teaching this unit to my third graders this week. Yesterday we talked about what opinions were, and I asked them to tell me some of their opinions, and then I told them the terrible secret: “Nobody cares about your opinions,” I said, and watched their faces open in shock. “Nobody, that is, unless you support those opinions with reasons. And your reasons need to include facts, and they need to include logic.” This blogger writes outrageous opinions, and sure, he declares them definitively. But there are no facts to support his claims of superiority, nor even a metric by which he makes that declaration. It’s like a bowl of Rice Crispies and guano: all puffery and batshit. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/45 "2017-10-25T21:01:44Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Well those who believe in determinism suggest that the “choice” has been made by you already. But since other people are just a figment of your imagination, it’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/46 "2017-10-25T21:17:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > … > It’s like a bowl of Rice Crispies and guano: all puffery and batshit. Bravo Good Sir. I’m gonna use that one. Where do I send the royalty check for how much? 😃 Seriously, your overall post is spot on. Anyone can state an opinion. At minimum they’ve got as many brain cells behind them does a dog barking. It’s only facts and logic that elevates it from dog-noise to something worthy of a critter with a brain. It’s certainly only facts and logic that elevates it to something a critter with a brain should listen to. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/47 "2017-10-25T22:10:13Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You asked me elsewhere how I dismissed this dude. I’ll answer here: so what that he thinks you are superior for not needing others to fulfill your desire? I think he’s inferior for not needing others; what now? > > I’m literally teaching this unit to my third graders this week. Yesterday we talked about what opinions were, and I asked them to tell me some of their opinions, and then I told them the terrible secret: “Nobody cares about your opinions,” I said, and watched their faces open in shock. > > “Nobody, that is, unless you support those opinions with reasons. And your reasons need to include facts, and they need to include logic.” > > This blogger writes outrageous opinions, and sure, he declares them definitively. But there are no facts to support his claims of superiority, nor even a metric by which he makes that declaration. It’s like a bowl of Rice Crispies and guano: all puffery and batshit. Ok that last bit was pretty good. But yeah, I get what you are saying. He asserts things as though they are self evident and true without actually supporting them with anything at all. I guess I’m just worried about him being right about anything at all. But I think the notion behind not needing anyone has some roots in individualism. That it’s better to not need anyone else for something when you can do it on your own. That sort of independence is a celebrated trait, so somehow I think that lends a bit of truth to the argument. Kind of like how " i dont need anyone else to have fun". Like not needing or depending on outside factors to aid yourself. Seeking help or things outside of you can be seen as weakness. So I guess you saying he is inferior for not needing others doesn’t hold the same kind of logical strength as his claim of not needing anyone else. I’m not trying to defend him, but I don’t want simple denial either. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/48 "2017-10-25T23:41:18Z")
As much as I want him to be wrong, I need something strong in my mind for it ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/49 "2017-10-26T00:26:51Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Ok that last bit was pretty good. But yeah, I get what you are saying. He asserts things as though they are self evident and true without actually supporting them with anything at all. I guess I’m just worried about him being right about anything at all. A stopped clock is right twice a day. That doesn’t mean you should get your time from it. > [@](#): > > But I think the notion behind not needing anyone has some roots in individualism. That it’s better to not need anyone else for something when you can do it on your own. That sort of independence is a celebrated trait, so somehow I think that lends a bit of truth to the argument. Kind of like how " i dont need anyone else to have fun". Like not needing or depending on outside factors to aid yourself. Seeking help or things outside of you can be seen as weakness. > > So I guess you saying he is inferior for not needing others doesn’t hold the same kind of logical strength as his claim of not needing anyone else. I’m not trying to defend him, but I don’t want simple denial either. If he said “For me, not needing anyone else works” no one could argue. His problem is applying his peculiar disposition to the entire world. If you read discussions on this subject here, let alone in places where people are even more open, you’ll find that some people like one partner forever, some are not satisfied without multiple partners, some want none at all. Some are monogamous, some find it stifling. Some have high libidos, some have low. Our diversity is incredible. But that doesn’t mean people liking X should say X is right for everyone. St. Paul did that, and screwed up the West for a very long time. If you love butterscotch ice cream exclusively, fine, just don’t tell me I’m stupid for not loving it as much as you. Which is what this guy is doing. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/50 "2017-10-26T02:40:22Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > A stopped clock is right twice a day. That doesn’t mean you should get your time from it. > If he said “For me, not needing anyone else works” no one could argue. His problem is applying his peculiar disposition to the entire world. > If you read discussions on this subject here, let alone in places where people are even more open, you’ll find that some people like one partner forever, some are not satisfied without multiple partners, some want none at all. > Some are monogamous, some find it stifling. Some have high libidos, some have low. Our diversity is incredible. > But that doesn’t mean people liking X should say X is right for everyone. St. Paul did that, and screwed up the West for a very long time. > If you love butterscotch ice cream exclusively, fine, just don’t tell me I’m stupid for not loving it as much as you. Which is what this guy is doing. I understand that, I really do. But the whole “not needing anyone” does seem to have some logic behind it. Being able to be independent is usually seen as a good thing. Although if we are speaking a broad sense, technically anyone can masturbate so that sort of throws a wrench in what he says. But he’s claims to be a virgin and is proud of the fact, seems to regard having sex with someone else as a weakness of some kind. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/51 "2017-10-26T03:19:00Z")
A)I’m not going to go read anything that guy has to say. But B) From what you have said about what he has to say, it sounds an awful lot like he is a lonely loser rife with sour grapes syndrome. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/52 "2017-10-26T03:50:44Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I understand that, I really do. But the whole “not needing anyone” does seem to have some logic behind it. Being able to be independent is usually seen as a good thing. Although if we are speaking a broad sense, technically anyone can masturbate so that sort of throws a wrench in what he says. But he’s claims to be a virgin and is proud of the fact, seems to regard having sex with someone else as a weakness of some kind. This reminds me of the old Simon and Garfunkel song “I am a Rock.” Yeah, not needing someone has the benefit of not being hurt if things go wrong, but it also has the problem of no upside, none of the amazing emotions and joy that love brings you. The same principle can go with trying anything new. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/53 "2017-10-26T03:57:52Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > . . . But I think the notion behind not needing anyone has some roots in individualism. That it’s better to not need anyone else for something when you can do it on your own. That sort of independence is a celebrated trait, so somehow I think that lends a bit of truth to the argument. Kind of like how " i dont need anyone else to have fun". Like not needing or depending on outside factors to aid yourself. Seeking help or things outside of you can be seen as weakness. Or it can be seen as a strength. Or a bit of both. To say that something “has its roots in individualism” can be another way of saying that it denies or discounts an important aspect of the human person, which is that it realises and expresses itself in relationships with other human persons. We are relational beings; to be human is to have relations with other humans. The human who is totally isolated is diminished by that isolation. Not needing others can be good, in certain respects, up to a point. But even that qualified good comes at a price, and the price has to be acknowledged. Probably the highest good is finding the optimal balance between independence and interdependence, and celebrating independence as a good in isolation, without also celebrating interdependnece as a good, is going to distort things. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/54 "2017-10-26T06:23:44Z")
I don’t know. I guess there is a pride to be had in not needing anyone. But it’s a lonely bit, and to be honest it kind of smacks of weakness a little. It’s being afraid to ask for help or to lean on others sometimes. I would venture to say that being obsessed with independence is a sign of emotional deprivation. You might have a point. There is no downside to not needing others, but not really a benefit. We see what happens to people in isolation. I wouldn’t say to need others, but to not be afraid to ask for help when you need to. Humans only got this far by helpin each other. No man is an island. In the case of sex, it’s more than just pleasure when it’s with someone else. It’s a different experience. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/55 "2017-10-26T10:52:12Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > In the case of sex, it’s more than just pleasure when it’s with someone else. It’s a different experience. Right–a different experience, and an experience that this dude is 100% unqualified to opine about. You’ve heard of [tough mudders](https://toughmudder.com/)? They’re these really intense obstacle courses that get you filthy and are incredibly difficult to complete. I’m here to tell you that they’re stupid: far too easy, and at the end of one you haven’t had fun, you’re just dirty and probably bruised up. People that do them are losers. Knowing that I’ve never been on a tough mudder, what respect do you have for this opinion? Now, it’s not a hard and fast rule that you have to have experienced something in order to have an opinion about it. Instead of having the experience directly, you can have a huge amount of reliable information about the experience, and you can share that information in a way that’s logically connected to your opinion. But that’s also not what’s going on here. This guy doesn’t pepper his posts with statistics and citations. He doesn’t even seem to be aware that people are getting something from sexual relationships with other people that he’s not getting from psychic pud-tugging. He thinks, “I’m doing exactly the same thing as they are, ONLY BETTER BECAUSE I CAN DO IT ALL BY MYSELF!” That’s nifty if you’re talking about tying your shoes, and maybe that’s where he got the idea from. But having a sexual relationship is different from tying your shoes, and if it isn’t either you’re doing it wrong or you’re way kinkier than me. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/56 "2017-10-27T01:34:10Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > THen there is stuff like this: > [https://forbiddentruthblog.com/2017/03/14/sexual-freedom-truthfully-defined-and-personally-achieved/](https://forbiddentruthblog.com/2017/03/14/sexual-freedom-truthfully-defined-and-personally-achieved/) Didn’t anybody notice this? > [@](#): > > All Text is Copyright © 2014-2064 The Seer of Forbidden Truth. 2064! In the future we’ll all be giving ourselves orgasms with our minds! You’re burying the lede! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/57 "2017-10-27T04:36:33Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Didn’t anybody notice this? > > 2064! In the future we’ll all be giving ourselves orgasms with our minds! You’re burying the lede! In the year 2064 His reasoning’s so poor Let’s show him the door He knows not of love ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/58 "2017-10-27T16:57:18Z")
[https://forbiddentruthblog.com/2015/08/03/the-pleasures-benefits-of-lifelong-virginity/](https://forbiddentruthblog.com/2015/08/03/the-pleasures-benefits-of-lifelong-virginity/) [https://forbiddentruthblog.com/tag/human-relationships/](https://forbiddentruthblog.com/tag/human-relationships/) [https://forbiddentruthblog.com/2017/07/26/poetic-and-beautiful-reflections-of-mindfulness-or-senseless-insane-displays-of-mindlessness/](https://forbiddentruthblog.com/2017/07/26/poetic-and-beautiful-reflections-of-mindfulness-or-senseless-insane-displays-of-mindlessness/) Yeah, you’re right. Judging from all these things, he really is screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412/59 "2017-10-27T22:57:53Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > In the year 2064 > His reasoning’s so poor > Let’s show him the door > He knows not of love Well he does say that love is a lie in that love is a selfish emotion, well maybe something like it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-define-sexual-freedom/799412.md?page=2)