# How does one deport a few million people? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 16, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115 "2016-11-16T00:49:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/41 "2016-11-16T19:26:23Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > No, countries have borders to delimit where their laws apply and what their military will defend from invasion. The idea that governments should prevent private individuals from moving across those borders is barely a hundred years old. And it is morally wrong. Wrong. ---
**Author:** ![janeslogin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@janeslogin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janeslogin)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/42 "2016-11-16T21:43:54Z")
Apparently it has been done before. "Operation Wetback’’ about 1954 I never heard of it and I was in high school at the time. Slate’s account goes into more detail than Wikipedia but I don’t know where they got their info. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/43 "2016-11-16T22:07:45Z")
Obama’s deportation numbers are misleading because the government now calls turning immigrants away from the border a deportation. According to [this LA times article](http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obama-deportations-20140402-story.html) this accounts for two thirds of Obama’s deportations. Also: > [@](#): > > Even when immigration officials want to deport someone who already has settled in the country, doing so is “virtually impossible” because of a lengthy backlog in the immigration courts, Sandweg said. Once people who have no prior removals or convictions are placed in deportation proceedings, actually removing them from the country can take six years or more in some jurisdictions, Sandweg said. Deporting millions of settled immigrants would cost billions of dollars and, if the history of certain states which have tried this is any guide, cause a crisis in certain sectors of the agricultural system. Produce would be rotting in the fields. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/44 "2016-11-16T22:12:03Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Deporting millions of settled immigrants would cost billions of dollars and, if the history of certain states which have tried this is any guide, cause a crisis in certain sectors of the agricultural system. Produce would be rotting in the fields. I thought Americans were _begging_ to be allowed to work in wretched conditions for a few dollars a day. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/45 "2016-11-16T22:21:02Z")
he whole area is fraught with problems … the first thing people do when they arrive is destroy any documents so the host country doesn’t know where they came from so can’t send them back - so they speak Spanish, well that narrows it down to about 15 countries. At that point their status changes … I forget, it’s an endless bureaucratic labyrinth … ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/46 "2016-11-16T22:34:08Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > You’re frankly incorrect, what you say goes against upward of a thousand years of accepted norms, to varying degrees (obviously moreso towards the recent end of that timeline) of the rights and privileges of states. Under your claims there’d be nothing at all wrong with 500,000 Americans moving to Iceland, where they would then form a majority, and overthrowing Iceland’s government (by winning all elections) and applying for Iceland to become a state of the U.S. It’s well over a thousand years. The earliest human societies we know of (hunter gatherers and low level horticulturalists) appear to have strongly policed the borders of their territories and been suspicious at best of outsiders. Of course, something like your Iceland scenario actually happened in Hawaii, and has happened plenty of times in human history before. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/47 "2016-11-16T22:36:17Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > If closed borders are so great, you wouldn’t disapprove of making it illegal for Illinoisans to move to California, right? And St. Louisans should make it illegal for people from Kansas City to move there? These are good things our governments should be allowed to do, correct? I would actually prefer, at some level, if the United States were a bunch of smaller countries, but that isn’t the reality we live in. To your point, though, lots of societies in the past have in fact had controls over internal migration, including the Soviet Union and China. National governments should have control, though, both of who’s allowed to enter their borders and who’s allowed to leave. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/48 "2016-11-16T23:01:22Z")
Not sure that China and the USSR are countries you want to point to when defending your policy positions. It’s like that meme going around that points out how fucked you would be to get caught entering North Korea and Iran illegally – and therefore the US should treat illegal immigrants the same way! Well I don’t want to live in North Korea or China. I’d prefer a free country, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/49 "2016-11-16T23:49:03Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Not sure that China and the USSR are countries you want to point to when defending your policy positions. It’s like that meme going around that points out how fucked you would be to get caught entering North Korea and Iran illegally – and therefore the US should treat illegal immigrants the same way! > > Well I don’t want to live in North Korea or China. I’d prefer a free country, thanks. Yes, but your personal preferences about freedom don’t actually demonstrate that either internal or external migration controls are morally wrong. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/50 "2016-11-17T04:55:38Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Trumpists will argue that all undocumented persons are criminals, because they broke the law just by coming here. I have actually heard this argument. It’s a quite valid argument. They broke the law. In addition, if they took jobs they committed a felony. If they used fake documents they committed a second felony. If they used stolen identities they committed yet another felony. It can actually take three felonies just to live here. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/51 "2016-11-17T04:57:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Anyone who’s willing to hike across the goddam Sonoran Desert looking for a way to feed their kids is OK by me. And anyone who wants to make their lives tougher for that is walking on the wrong side of me. Then your first step should be ending the requirement of employers to get documentation. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/52 "2016-11-17T05:01:16Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > If closed borders are so great, you wouldn’t disapprove of making it illegal for Illinoisans to move to California, right? And St. Louisans should make it illegal for people from Kansas City to move there? These are good things our governments should be allowed to do, correct? This is a valid economic argument but you make it seem like a moral argument when it isn’t. All countries limit who can enter. I think a case can be made for open borders. No mainstream politician is willing to make that case and I’m not sure any fringe politicians are either except for the Libertarian Party. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/53 "2016-11-17T05:59:05Z")
Well, OK, then, iceburg lettuce, ten dollars a head. Now, there’s a crowd pleaser! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/54 "2016-11-17T06:57:43Z")
So the south was right, we do need slaves, we’ll just pay them a nominal wage and let them leave the country if they don’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/55 "2016-11-17T08:45:26Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > It’s not a matter of “not following the rules”, it’s a matter of millions of people simply not being allowed to move here, legally. If the rules and regulations say you can’t move, then the rules and regulations must be changed. And then there’s the issues of people who didn’t choose to move (they got moved by their parents, or were born in the country to illegal immigrants), or who entered the country legally, worked legally but at one point were told “you will now work illegally or I call the Migra on you” and may not even have had the option to go back home. So long as the penalties are greater for workers without work permits than for their employers, blackmailing people into working illegally will continue. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/56 "2016-11-17T09:00:20Z")
Not that you’re wrong, but that valid talking point has been superseded by events. Democrats aren’t too big on penalizing employers either. That would cause self deportation and we can’t have that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/57 "2016-11-17T12:13:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And immigrant criminals should just be kept in prison until their country takes them back. > [@adaher](#): > > It’s a quite valid argument. They broke the law. In addition, if they took jobs they committed a felony. If they used fake documents they committed a second felony. If they used stolen identities they committed yet another felony. It can actually take three felonies just to live here. Is it your position that all undocumented persons should be tried, convicted and held in prison until a country accepts them? That is certainly what those two statements sound like. No wait, you also said this: > [@](#): > > If their country won’t take them back, then we let them go on condition they stay out of trouble So which is it, stay free or go to prison? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/58 "2016-11-17T12:23:01Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > And then there’s the issues of people who didn’t choose to move (they got moved by their parents, or were born in the country to illegal immigrants), or who entered the country legally, worked legally but at one point were told “you will now work illegally or I call the Migra on you” and may not even have had the option to go back home. > > So long as the penalties are greater for workers without work permits than for their employers, blackmailing people into working illegally will continue. Just a minor point: anyone born in the country to illegal immigrants is a citizen and perfectly able to work legally. And I’m sure I’m missing something obvious, but I’m not following this sequence: “or who entered the country legally, worked legally but at one point were told ‘you will now work illegally or I call the Migra on you…’” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/59 "2016-11-17T12:45:00Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Is it your position that all undocumented persons should be tried, convicted and held in prison until a country accepts them? That is certainly what those two statements sound like. No. But any immigrants caught working with fake documents should be charged just as a native working with fake documents would be. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115/60 "2016-11-17T12:58:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Just a minor point: anyone born in the country to illegal immigrants is a citizen and perfectly able to work legally. > > And I’m sure I’m missing something obvious, but I’m not following this sequence: “or who entered the country legally, worked legally but at one point were told ‘you will now work illegally or I call the Migra on you…’” Roughly[half or more of illegal immigrants](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/424879/visa-overstays-todays-immigration-crisis-mark-krikorian) have overstayed their visa. > [@](#): > > The paper’s most recent estimate is for 2012, when nearly 60 percent of new illegal immigrants are believed to have entered legally on some sort of visa (or visa-waiver status, if they’re from a developed country) and then just stayed on after their time expired. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-deport-a-few-million-people/772115.md?page=4)