# How does one determine the intelligence of trees? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 28, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268 "2014-07-28T18:54:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/21 "2014-07-28T22:11:50Z")
Some people say trees are knot smart, they’re just board. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/22 "2014-07-28T22:13:42Z")
IQ is just the square root of the diameter. You’ll find that most of them are saps. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/23 "2014-07-28T22:27:10Z")
Use a measuring stick. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/24 "2014-07-29T01:07:07Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > only intelligent beings can communicate > > [Plant communication - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_communication#Plants_and_fungi) > > only intelligent beings can kill for their own benefit > > [Strangler fig - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangler_fig) Communication is just data transfer and requires no intelligence. Every cell in our body is communicating via hormones; they aren’t intelligent. And even a virus can kill for its own benefit; again, no intelligence needed. ---
**Author:** ![sich\_hinaufwinden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@sich\_hinaufwinden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sich_hinaufwinden)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/25 "2014-07-29T01:21:54Z")
I once had a tree that was completely impervious to infection. So of course it started thinking it was pretty tough and it developed quite an aggressive attitude. But despite its extremely tough exterior, deep down it was an old softy. And that was the root of the problem: it was all bark and no blight. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/26 "2014-07-29T01:31:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Birch? Please. Well, I said we were drooling imbeciles. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/27 "2014-07-29T01:34:50Z")
On a tangent, this is an example of why I think it’s very unlikely humans will ever discover “intelligent” life in the universe. Even on our own planet, there are modes of life so different than ours that it renders the question meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/28 "2014-07-29T01:52:27Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > Some people say trees are knot smart, they’re just board. And some people don’t know their ash from a hole in the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/29 "2014-07-29T02:07:18Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > only intelligent beings can kill for their own benefit > > [Strangler fig - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangler_fig) Most organisms that kill do it for their own benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/30 "2014-07-29T02:09:33Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > On a tangent, this is an example of why I think it’s very unlikely humans will ever discover “intelligent” life in the universe. Even on our own planet, there are modes of life so different than ours that it renders the question meaningless. The term, “intelligence” has meaning. There might be a majority of creatures that have reasoning systems that are completely useless or bizarre so far as we’re concerned, but anything intelligent, we should be able to understand and relate to, to at least some extent, since intelligence implies logic and logic is pretty universal. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/31 "2014-07-29T04:39:46Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The term, “intelligence” has meaning. There might be a majority of creatures that have reasoning systems that are completely useless or bizarre so far as we’re concerned, but anything intelligent, we should be able to understand and relate to, to at least some extent, since intelligence implies logic and logic is pretty universal. :dubious: Among whom or what? Excluding humans, that is. ---
**Author:** ![ALOHA\_HATER](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@ALOHA\_HATER](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ALOHA_HATER)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/32 "2014-07-29T05:23:00Z")
A tree could seem marginally intelligent to us if we watched its whole life on fast-forward. If we watched these videos of multiple trees, one might look more intelligent if it dealt with poor growing environments better than another. There’s no clear border where sentience manifests in an observable and objective way. But reasonable people will agree that trees lie on the non-intelligent side of that fuzzy line. (Barring unforeseen botany, anyway.) Intelligent systems selfjoin into being in organisms that are complex due to being made of really numerous and diverse elements. So a tree doesn’t have intelligence. An apple grove probably doesn’t. But a large forest’s ecosystem… maybe something like that _does._ Things like that certainly act like they have intelligence. Thank god they’re slow enough to avoid developing gossip and formalwear. ---
**Author:** ![j\_sum1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8baadc/32.png) [@j\_sum1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j_sum1)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/33 "2014-07-29T05:33:37Z")
What!!! Have none of you seen Avatar? Ok. back to business. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/34 "2014-07-29T07:56:39Z")
> [@ALOHA\_HATER](#): > > A tree could seem marginally intelligent to us if we watched its whole life on fast-forward. If we watched these videos of multiple trees, one might look more intelligent if it dealt with poor growing environments better than another. > > There’s no clear border where sentience manifests in an observable and objective way. But reasonable people will agree that trees lie on the non-intelligent side of that fuzzy line. (Barring unforeseen botany, anyway.) Intelligent systems selfjoin into being in organisms that are complex due to being made of really numerous and diverse elements. > > So a tree doesn’t have intelligence. An apple grove probably doesn’t. But a large forest’s ecosystem… maybe something like that _does._ Things like that certainly act like they have intelligence. Thank god they’re slow enough to avoid developing gossip and formalwear. Not to mention an anthill. Any individual ant has the mental capability of an . . . um . . . ant. But collectively, could you say an ant colony is “intelligent”? If so, how would you communicate with it? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/35 "2014-07-29T09:09:50Z")
_“Of course I’m sane, when trees start talking to me, I don’t talk back.” ― Terry Pratchett, The Light Fantastic_ ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/36 "2014-07-29T09:28:02Z")
You know who the _real_ monster is? Man…grove trees ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/37 "2014-07-29T10:17:55Z")
OK, I did an experiment: I gave a standardized IQ test to my tree with a standard No. 2 pencil. After the allotted time, I noticed that the tree had not picked up the pencil. Normally, one would assign a very low score to this, but calling my friend, a professor of ethical behavior in plant, he suggested that this demonstrates an extremely high degree of empathetic behavior, as the tree obviously reviews to use a wooden product. We can safely conclude the tree must be highly intelligent. Or that the test is fundamentally flawed, but that can’t possibly be true, right? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/38 "2014-07-29T11:16:53Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > A survey found that 85% of arborologists believe that oak trees are naturally more intelligent than maple trees, entirely due to their DNA. Don’t believe a word that pussy willow says. ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/39 "2014-07-29T16:12:55Z")
Which branch of education are yew referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268/40 "2014-07-29T17:11:52Z")
> [@Timetrvlr](#): > > I don’t think… Sorry, you lost me here [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-determine-the-intelligence-of-trees/694268.md?page=3)