# How does one hide $4m + from the IRS and wife? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 26, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663 "2012-01-26T01:11:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/21 "2012-01-26T08:20:04Z")
I assume money orders. She said she was headed to the bank tomorrow. She talked to a banker on the phone and they didn’t have a lot of info - just says “withdrawn”. Only a couple of check images and transfers were known. The rest is a mystery. 😕 I’m really wondering about the fact that her name is on some credit card agreements for his company and he’s still using those. ---
**Author:** ![markm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@markm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/22 "2012-01-26T15:32:55Z")
Banks have to report any transactions over… $10,000? (been out of the industry for almost 6 years, so amount may have gone up or down) when they happen. That much money moving that quickly through a personal account, especially an account that does not typically see that level of transactions would’ve set off so many alarms that there’s no way he kept it a secret from the IRS or other governing agencies. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/23 "2012-01-26T16:05:37Z")
She may also want to look into getting a Forensic Accountant to look over any of the accounts that are in her name. If you have found this much out a trained specialist should be able to find more and give her a better idea what is happening and how exposed she is to criminal and civil liabilities. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/24 "2012-01-26T17:00:06Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Not only does she need to lawyer up, she needs to open a second account and tie it to the first. Then watch the first and as soon as money shows up in it, transfer it to the second where he can’t get at it. Recieve cash, pay credit cards immediately, then cancel cards, then close account. Then hopefully have enough left over to buy a new identity because if he is some kind of criminal, $100K is not something one just casually writes off. My only worry would be if he is conducting criminal activity (other than just hiding money for tax purposes) she could be implicated by recieving proceeds from those illegal activities. Her actions might seem to be the reasonable course of a fucked over spouse, but I would hate to see your mother in prison because she was unaware of the origin of those funds and unable to prove she was not. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/25 "2012-01-26T17:00:23Z")
More knowledgeable people - would it be in her best interests to contact the IRS _herself_? Get it on the books right away that she doesn’t know what the hell is going on, and she wants to help them clear it up in any way she can? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/26 "2012-01-26T17:51:08Z")
You know, she definitely needs to meet with an attorney. If they reside in a community property state, it’s possible that she could be on the hook for the tax ramifications of his bad behavior (especially if it’s gambling, but even if it’s illegal activity. . . that money is supposed to be reported). We have some insane cases where the husband was doing things like this behind the wife’s back, but you wouldn’t believe how difficult it is to get the IRS to believe the wife had nothing to do with it. And if she does pull money out of that account, she probably needs to discuss with her attorney what to do with it. I’d hate for her to spend even a penny, then be charged too because he’s doing something illegal. Oh, once she does meet with the attorney and knows she’s ok, she can also call the IRS and let them know about her husband’s activity. If she is liable for some of it due to community property laws, they may be more lenient with her if she rats him out. Plus, there are whistle blower rewards. But like I said, check with the attorney, then if she does have some liability, she needs to retain a legitimate tax representative-- either a lawyer or an Enrolled Agent-- who can speak to the IRS for her. We don’t want her digging herself into a hole with the government. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/27 "2012-01-26T23:59:29Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > Recieve cash, pay credit cards immediately, then cancel cards, then close account. . . . If she’s worried about him possibly running the debt up further, she can cancel the cards before paying them off. The debt would still be there and would still have to be paid off according to the rules, fees, and interest in place at closure. But she can worry about that without worrying about him continuing to use them. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/28 "2012-01-27T04:19:07Z")
He has been making payments on them. He still uses them - he’s just using at a greater rate than paying. He actually told her in 2010 that he had to divorce her to protect their assets because he was getting sued. :rolleye: Talk about a long con. He made sure she kept him on her insurance and paid his medical bills… ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/29 "2012-01-27T16:54:18Z")
> [@markm](#): > > Banks have to report any transactions over… $10,000? (been out of the industry for almost 6 years, so amount may have gone up or down) when they happen. That much money moving that quickly through a personal account, especially an account that does not typically see that level of transactions would’ve set off so many alarms that there’s no way he kept it a secret from the IRS or other governing agencies. That one sees it typically, though, it’s been used as a stopover for that money pretty much since it got open. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/30 "2012-01-27T17:08:43Z")
The IRS moves pretty slowly, but also pretty surely. Don’t be surprised if a couple years from now he’s arrested for tax fraud, money laundering etc. Your Mom needs to consult a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/31 "2012-01-27T17:26:29Z")
> [@markm](#): > > Banks have to report any transactions over… $10,000? **cash** transactions So he may have an illegal source of income that he funnels through the account and pretends to gamble away. He claims a ton of gambling losses and keeps the cash? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/32 "2012-01-27T17:37:59Z")
I don’t really understand all the financial jiggery-pokery going on, but one thing that seems pretty clear is that he’s setting his ex-wife up for the fall. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/33 "2012-01-27T17:46:36Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > **cash** transactions If he’s buddies with someone at the bank, perhaps he can pay off the banker to ignore the cash reporting law. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/34 "2012-01-27T17:47:53Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > **cash** transactions > > So he may have an illegal source of income that he funnels through the account and pretends to gamble away. He claims a ton of gambling losses and keeps the cash? That is what I was thinking. It sounds pretty clever until you know it is one of most amateurish ways to launder money because so many people have tried it and the Feds are onto that trick. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/35 "2012-01-27T17:55:59Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > If he’s buddies with someone at the bank, perhaps he can pay off the banker to ignore the cash reporting law. It’s possible he had them pay it out in $9999 money orders or something of that nature. But then I don’t think it would show up as one $175,000 withdrawl, but rather 18 smaller withdrawls. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/36 "2012-01-27T18:08:41Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > It’s possible he had them pay it out in $9999 money orders or something of that nature. But then I don’t think it would show up as one $175,000 withdrawl, but rather 18 smaller withdrawls. A bank teller is trained to and likely would report that as suspicious actiivity under $10k (with the apparent intent to circumvent the reporting law) and/or as cumulative cash transactions of $10k+. When I was a teller, I once reported multiple cash deposits into one account of $4k to $6k each, spread over many days. By sheer conincidence, they came to my teller window every time, which is how I spotted it. I later heard the customer was arrested due to my reporting. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/37 "2012-01-27T19:21:52Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That is what I was thinking. It sounds pretty clever until you know it is one of most amateurish ways to launder money because so many people have tried it and the Feds are onto that trick. I don’t get how that would even work as a possible form of money laundering. If it’s known that I had 50K as income, I have to pay taxes on that 50K, even if I lost it all in gambling, right? If it isn’t known that I had 50K as income, then there’s no point in claiming that I lost it through gambling. Maybe there’s somthing I’m not getting. Claiming “I lost all that money in gambling” seems as much a justification for paying lower taxes as “I lost all that money drinking”. Now, if he doesn’t claim gamblign losses but rather gambling gains as a way to make black money into white money (and have to pay taxes on it), then I can see that as a possibility. How do they Feds show beyond reasonable doubt that the money wasn’t gained through gambling? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/38 "2012-01-27T19:26:08Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Maybe there’s somthing I’m not getting. Claiming “I lost all that money in gambling” seems as much a justification for paying lower taxes as “I lost all that money drinking”. Yeah, that doesn’t quite make sense. You’re only allowed to claim gambling losses up to your gambling winnings. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/39 "2012-01-27T19:47:26Z")
Yeah, that sounds right. I was thinking about hiding money from creditors. Different story. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663/40 "2012-01-27T20:27:28Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > I don’t get how that would even work as a possible form of money laundering. If it’s known that I had 50K as income, I have to pay taxes on that 50K, even if I lost it all in gambling, right? If it isn’t known that I had 50K as income, then there’s no point in claiming that I lost it through gambling. > > Maybe there’s somthing I’m not getting. Claiming “I lost all that money in gambling” seems as much a justification for paying lower taxes as “I lost all that money drinking”. > Now, if he doesn’t claim gamblign losses but rather gambling gains as a way to make black money into white money (and have to pay taxes on it), then I can see that as a possibility. > > How do they Feds show beyond reasonable doubt that the money wasn’t gained through gambling? That is the idea. You take illegal (dirty) money and take it to a casino where you convert it into chips. That part of the transaction isn’t recorded. You gamble all day or night placing huge bets on games that don’t have a big house advantage like craps or blackjack. The goal isn’t to actually win or lose any money on the gambling itself. The key is that at the end off the night, you claim you were lucky and had some huge gambling wins which you pay tax on to make it legit again (laundering). The government doesn’t know that you walked in with $1,000,000 and out with right about that minus taxes. They have their record of where it came from and the taxes you paid on it. Unfortunately, this is a common ploy for many types of criminals and there are ways that they can catch it and they will if you do it regularly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-hide-4m-from-the-irs-and-wife/610663.md?page=3)