# How Does One Legally Change Sex? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 1, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897 "2011-09-01T22:45:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/21 "2011-09-08T00:52:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Out of curiosity, why change a person’s records back to birth? Chaz Bono is a man and I can see changing any of his current legal records to reflect his gender. But he was born a woman in 1969. He didn’t become a man until 2008. Shouldn’t a birth certificate reflect a person’s gender at the time they were born? Changing his birth certificate to male seems to imply that Bono was a man in 1970, 1980, and 1990 - which was not the case. Actually, he _was_ a man the whole time; identity is in the brain, not the genitals. Just as if you stuck my brain in a robot, I’d be a male human brain in a robot body, not a robot. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/22 "2011-09-08T01:49:12Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Actually, he _was_ a man the whole time; identity is in the brain, not the genitals. Just as if you stuck my brain in a robot, I’d be a male human brain in a robot body, not a robot. Are you saying there are male brains and female brains and there’s a difference between them? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/23 "2011-09-08T02:16:41Z")
Where the person lives defines how they legally change their gender. For example, [in Scotland:](http://www.scottishtrans.org/Page/Gender_Recognition.aspx) > [@](#): > > To apply for a Gender Recognition Certificate under the Standard Application Process the person needs to demonstrate that: > > They are at least 18 years old; > They have lived fully for the last two years in their acquired gender and that they intend to live permanently in their acquired gender for the rest of their life; > They have, or have had, gender dysphoria. They are required to provide two medical reports (one from their GP and one from their Gender Specialist) confirming the diagnosis and detailing any transition-related medical treatment (such as psychological counselling, hormones and/or surgical procedures) that they have received. It is not necessary for the person to have undergone any surgery but if they haven’t then one of the reports should indicate whether they are waiting for any surgery or give any reason for the person deciding not to have any surgery. From what my transgendered friends have said, I have the impression that similar rules apply anywhere that gender transition is recognised, though the time limits might be different. It always requires ‘living in their acquired gender’ for a specific amount of time. What Chaz Bono had to do to change his gender would depend on where he did so, and I don’t know that. WRT marriage, from the same link: > [@](#): > > To receive a full Gender Recognition Certificate, a transsexual person must be unmarried and not in a UK civil partnership. This is because, under the laws of the UK, a marriage is only valid if it is contracted by two people of the opposite sex in law. A civil partnership may only be formed between people of the same sex in law. If a person applies for Gender Recognition while married or in a civil partnership then they will only be able to get an interim certificate. A friend of mine had to recently dissolve his civil partnership in order to complete his legal gender recognition even though he was still with his female partner. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Are you saying there are male brains and female brains and there’s a difference between them? There are, or at least there’s some evidence that there are, but that’s a big topic, requiring more cites and discussion than this one. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/24 "2011-09-08T02:35:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Are you saying there are male brains and female brains and there’s a difference between them? For the very brief, uncited version: Yes, there are certain brain structures that differ between men and women, and that transgender people share with the gender they identify as, not the gender assigned at birth. Unfortunately, the only way to check is by dissecting and scanning the brain after death. I’ve also never got a good idea of how accurate it is. I imagine there’s a fairly small sample size of transgender people who brains have been dissected and scanned. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/25 "2011-09-08T02:41:14Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I wish I knew the answer too. It’s a test case I want to run in Texas. My guess is that Texas would not recognize the marriage, which would have interesting FF&C consequences. As far as I understand it, in Texas you are (legally) the gender assigned at birth, and you may marry someone assigned the opposite gender at birth, and nothing can change that until the law changes. Gender reassignment surgery has no more bearing on your marriage options than any other type of cosmetic surgery. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/26 "2011-09-08T05:06:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Are you saying there are male brains and female brains and there’s a difference between them? Yes. Or rather there are brain structures that are typical of males and females, and in _this_ case the particular structures involved happen to be crucial to gender identity. > [@waterj2](#): > > For the very brief, uncited version: Yes, there are certain brain structures that differ between men and women, and that transgender people share with the gender they identify as, not the gender assigned at birth. Unfortunately, the only way to check is by dissecting and scanning the brain after death. I understand that the difference is visible to the naked eye. The problem is that you can only get a look at it by digging out that part of the brain, which can’t be done and leave you alive. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/27 "2011-09-08T09:49:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So I was wondering if this just meant the information was incomplete or if there were some states which really didn’t require proof an an actual change in order to legally change genders. I don’t know about the States, but in Spain you do not need to have completed (or intend to complete) sex reassignment treatment in order to get your gender changed legally. Making a long story short, it’s the other way round: in order to be able to get your treatment through Social Security, you need to have been legally accepted as being in the wrong body (details on whether this involves going to a judge, an arbitration pannel or can be decided directly by your doctors vary by Autonomous Region). ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/28 "2011-09-08T11:59:19Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I understand that the difference is visible to the naked eye. The problem is that you can only get a look at it by digging out that part of the brain, which can’t be done and leave you alive. This seems odd. Don’t we, in this day and age, have scanning technology (MRI, CT scan, etc) that can non-invasively show any structures that would be visible to the naked eye after dissection? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/29 "2011-09-08T12:22:03Z")
MRI and CT are good, but they ain’t _Star Trek_, they both have real limitations. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/30 "2011-09-08T14:15:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Changing his birth certificate to male seems to imply that Bono was a man in 1970, 1980, and 1990 - which was not the case. He was always a man–he just hadn’t figured it out yet, because he got stuck with a body that we typically assume belongs to a female person. It’s like coming out as gay: if your 30-year-old friend suddenly tells you she’s a lesbian, she’s probably always \*been \*a lesbian. We just don’t document people’s sexual orientation the same way we do their gender, so there aren’t any legal hoops to jump through for your friend to establish that she’s not straight like everyone assumed at birth. Because that’s what the sex on your birth certificate is: an assumption, based on the best evidence we have at the time (the baby’s genitals). Sometimes mistakes are made, either because the baby is one of the few unfortunate\* people whose mental and physical genders don’t match, or because the baby is intersexed, the parents felt obligated to choose one, and chose wrong. Ooh, better analogy: it’s like discovering that your mother’s husband wasn’t your biological father. He’s on the birth certificate because everyone assumed he was your father due to the evidence at the time, but he’s not, so getting that adjusted would just be correcting an error. Your biological father has always been your biological father, regardless of what the birth certificate said. \*Unfortunate because they’re going to be stuck with a whole bunch of expensive medical treatments to fix the mismatch, not to mention dealing with a shitload of discrimination and probably violence. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/31 "2011-09-08T14:36:48Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > He was always a man–he just hadn’t figured it out yet, because he got stuck with a body that we typically assume belongs to a female person. It’s like coming out as gay: if your 30-year-old friend suddenly tells you she’s a lesbian, she’s probably always \*been \*a lesbian. We just don’t document people’s sexual orientation the same way we do their gender, so there aren’t any legal hoops to jump through for your friend to establish that she’s not straight like everyone assumed at birth. While you are right in a broader sense, this brings with it a lot of legal problems. If a person is considered legally male since birth, but had, before the situation was rectified been seen as female, and had entered into a marriage with a man, then should that marriage be voided? Can the IRS for example look back through prior tax returns and reclaim monies that would have been paid by two men living together, as opposed to a married couple? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/32 "2011-09-08T19:45:07Z")
> [@villa](#): > > While you are right in a broader sense, this brings with it a lot of legal problems. If a person is considered legally male since birth, but had, before the situation was rectified been seen as female, and had entered into a marriage with a man, then should that marriage be voided? Can the IRS for example look back through prior tax returns and reclaim monies that would have been paid by two men living together, as opposed to a married couple? You could look at it like annulment in the Catholic Church. When a marriage is annulled, it’s the Church saying it was never valid in the first place, but it doesn’t make any children of the marriage illegitimate. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/33 "2011-09-08T22:45:40Z")
Boy, you’re the queen of analogies today, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/34 "2011-09-08T23:23:10Z")
If it’s the case that gender is determined by the brain not the genitalia, why is sexual reassignment surgery a necessity for the records of your gender changed? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/35 "2011-09-09T00:09:10Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I have no clue if “Chaz” is a typically male or female name Male. Usually a nickname for Charles, though I don’t know if Chaz’s legal name is ‘Charles’ or ‘Chaz’. (It was Chastity before he transitioned.) ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/36 "2011-09-09T15:51:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If it’s the case that gender is determined by the brain not the genitalia, why is sexual reassignment surgery a necessity for the records of your gender changed? In part, it’s due to bureaucratic misunderstanding of how the SRS process works. Some people think one goes off to some clinic looking fully like one’s sex at birth, gets nipped and tucked, and comes home visibly transformed. These people don’t understand that most people change their gender presentation very early in the process, and may not have genital surgery for years. Other bureaucrats are just hung up on genitals, and they just can’t get past “penis = male, vagina = female.” These are the people who, when confronted with a person with a beard, baritone voice, big muscles and a vagina, will insist on calling him “her” despite all publicly-visible evidence to the contrary. Finally, some bureaucracies seem to regard genital surgery as “finalizing” things. Again, this is based on some misunderstanding of how gender reassignment works. Changes due to hormones are often inaccurately described as “reversible,” with the implication that if the person stopped taking hormones, they’d go back to looking like their birth gender. There’s a kernel of truth to this for biological males who have taken female hormones - breasts will shrink and body fat will return to a more typically male distribution. It’s much less true for biological females who have taken male hormones - the voice will not go back to its original pitch, and body / facial hair will not return to a typical female distribution. Really, if one has been on hormones for years, it’s not reversible. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/37 "2011-09-09T15:58:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Out of curiosity, why change a person’s records back to birth? Chaz Bono is a man and I can see changing any of his current legal records to reflect his gender. But he was born a woman in 1969. He didn’t become a man until 2008. Shouldn’t a birth certificate reflect a person’s gender at the time they were born? Changing his birth certificate to male seems to imply that Bono was a man in 1970, 1980, and 1990 - which was not the case. What \*\*Shot From Guns \*\*said. Also, one’s birth certificate - at least in the US - is a primary form of identification. If you have a driver’s license or a passport, you probably won’t use your birth certificate to prove your identity, but you may need to show your birth certificate to get a license or passport in the first place, or to replace them if they’re lost or stolen. Most TG people would rather skip the whole “Yes, this is really my birth certificate, I was born a female and Mary Jane Smith, but I transitioned and now I’m visibly male and my name is Michael John Smith. Honest,” part of the discussion. It’s embarrassing and doesn’t actually pertain to the issue at hand. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/38 "2011-09-09T16:29:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If it’s the case that gender is determined by the brain not the genitalia, why is sexual reassignment surgery a necessity for the records of your gender changed? It’s not always; see my cite above. When it is necessary, or reasons for not having it are necessary, it’s basically because they want the person to be really certain that they want to change gender. It’s also not something people fight against because the majority of trans people want the surgery, and if they can get legal recognition while waiting for the surgery or in the process of doing it, then that’s all the better. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/39 "2011-09-09T19:12:35Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > In part, it’s due to bureaucratic misunderstanding of how the SRS process works. Some people think one goes off to some clinic looking fully like one’s sex at birth, gets nipped and tucked, and comes home visibly transformed. These people don’t understand that most people change their gender presentation very early in the process, and may not have genital surgery for years. > > Other bureaucrats are just hung up on genitals, and they just can’t get past “penis = male, vagina = female.” These are the people who, when confronted with a person with a beard, baritone voice, big muscles and a vagina, will insist on calling him “her” despite all publicly-visible evidence to the contrary. > > Finally, some bureaucracies seem to regard genital surgery as “finalizing” things. Again, this is based on some misunderstanding of how gender reassignment works. Changes due to hormones are often inaccurately described as “reversible,” with the implication that if the person stopped taking hormones, they’d go back to looking like their birth gender. There’s a kernel of truth to this for biological males who have taken female hormones - breasts will shrink and body fat will return to a more typically male distribution. It’s much less true for biological females who have taken male hormones - the voice will not go back to its original pitch, and body / facial hair will not return to a typical female distribution. Really, if one has been on hormones for years, it’s not reversible. That’s not really the point I was making. Some people apparently are saying that your gender is determined by your mind - gender is a function of the brain. So my question was if that’s the case why do we attach so much importance to the state of the body? If your brain says you’re a woman, then you’re a woman even if you’ve never taken a single step in any sexual reassignment procedure. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897/40 "2011-09-09T19:19:43Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > What \*\*Shot From Guns \*\*said. Also, one’s birth certificate - at least in the US - is a primary form of identification. If you have a driver’s license or a passport, you probably won’t use your birth certificate to prove your identity, but you may need to show your birth certificate to get a license or passport in the first place, or to replace them if they’re lost or stolen. Most TG people would rather skip the whole “Yes, this is really my birth certificate, I was born a female and Mary Jane Smith, but I transitioned and now I’m visibly male and my name is Michael John Smith. Honest,” part of the discussion. It’s embarrassing and doesn’t actually pertain to the issue at hand. I hardly think this is going to avoid the problem. What happens when Michael John Smith is asked to produce his high school diploma for a job application and the HR department sees he’s given them a diploma that was issued to Mary Jane Smith? Obviously, he’ll explain that he was a girl named Mary Jane Smith when he graduated from high school. And they’ll look at his birth certificate and say “Well, according to your birth certificate you were born a boy. How did you become a girl in school?” I think the best policy would be to acknowledge a change occurred. Smith was born a girl and went to school as a girl named Mary Jane. Then when he was thirty years old, he became a man named Michael John and that’s what he is now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-one-legally-change-sex/594897.md?page=3)