# How does public-available charging of electric vehicles work?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [March 30, 2024, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613 "2024-03-30T19:19:54Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2024, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/101 "2024-05-11T17:51:21Z")
I’ve been on travel this past week, with a gasoline vehicle, but I _do_ have another business trip to Las Vegas next weekend. I’ll get caught up on this thread, and possibly . . . _just possibly_ try an EV in Vegas.
Tripler
Depends ultimately if I’m going ‘out to the range.’
---
### Author:  [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2024, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/102 "2024-05-11T18:32:49Z")
Other versions of the news story suggest that Musk laid off “some of…” or “most of…” the supercharger team, which explains the “we’ll keep installing them but at a slower pace” bit.
As Iunderstand it, a supercharger site with 8 stalls, even V1 with 150kW (divided between two charger pedestals), needs about 600kW power feed. Considering my house with 100A service is about 25kW, that’s a hefty amount of power. That’s why installing a new power feed, usually to a more distant part of a parking lot, can get expensive.
There are two types of charger needs remaining so far - more in urban areas and heavily travelled routes, and new in very remote areas. The cost of power feed to more remote areas may tend to be prohibitive. I suspect the future involves large battery packs. A lesser power feed can charge batteries, to charge the occasional vehicle much faster. This concept starts to slow down with heavy demand. The other problem woould be that batteries tend to work better when not extremely cold, meaning they would need heated shelter, adding to the cost.
---
### Author:  [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2024, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/103 "2024-05-20T01:45:41Z")
So, as a self-imposed follow-up to an earlier post, I flew into Las Vegas this afternoon, through the same airport, going through the same rental car company, and can only sum up today’s experience in three simple words. . .
“Oh hell no.”
This is more of a referendum on the rental company than anything else, but here’s a quick rundown of things leading up to that pointed utterance: Last week, I downloaded _Plugshare_ and did my ‘map recon’ of possible chargers near the hotel I am now starying at. Closest one is 0.23 miles away–not _too_ bad, but I don’t feel like schlepping my stuff 1/4 mile from car to hotel after a long day of travel, nor first thing in the morning. (Strike 1) I don’t know the neighborhoods either, so I reckoned it’s not best to leave a car relatively unattended for long period of time, especially out of sight/hearing (Strike 2).
_ **Then** _ I get to the rental line–a bounty of six vehicles await my selection, with evenly distributed options between EV and gasoline. In happy anticipation of _this_ post, I hop into the first EV and ‘start’ it up. Immediately, the dashboard glows an angry orange at me, indicating: “CHARGE LOW 5%-- PLUG IN NOW TO START.” (Ball 1). Not feeling like I should be taking orders from a machine, I yank my luggage, and proceed to EV#2 . . same thing in _that_ one: “CHARGE LOW 8%.” (Ball 2). I’m not feeling good vibes from Deuce, so I again yank gear and head over to EV#3. Maybe fortune favors the bold, or it knew my username, but #3 had a bold 12% charge but was still prompting for a plugin (Swing and a miss–Strike 3–I’m out). Not really feeling comfortable with all this, I re-re-re-grabbed my stuff and went to the first gasoline vehicle which happily had a full tank ‘o’ go-juice.
So, I’ll try this again someday, but I’m not really impressed right now with the lack of infrastructure in a major metropolitan area, not the comedy of errors with Hertz (independently disappointing factors).
Tripler
Maybe next time . . .
---
### Author:  [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2024, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/104 "2024-05-20T10:11:01Z")
> [@Tripler](#):
>
> So, I’ll try this again someday, but I’m not really impressed right now with the lack of infrastructure in a major metropolitan area, not the comedy of errors with Hertz (independently disappointing factors).
Probably a good idea you didn’t get an EV from Hertz since their incompetence has them inaccurately billing likely 10s - 100s of different EV renters hundreds of dollars for fuel refilling for their non-fuel consuming EVs. Reading the stories is enough to swear off Hertz altogether given how much of a shambles their backend systems seem to be running.
> **[Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident](https://www.thedrive.com/news/hertz-charging-a-tesla-renter-for-gas-was-not-an-isolated-incident)**
>
> Hertz has charged customers who rented EVs hundreds of dollars for gas their cars couldn't use on multiple occasions.
---
### Author:  [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2024, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/105 "2024-05-20T15:48:48Z")
I’m curious about the economics of public charging stations:
Do prices vary much between stations in the same area?
Are faster chargers more expensive?
Do drivers go an extra distance to get cheaper charging?
How much more expensive is public charging than home charging?
Thanks in advance!
---
### Author:  [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2024, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/106 "2024-05-20T15:56:27Z")
> [@zimaane](#):
>
> Do prices vary much between stations in the same area?
> Are faster chargers more expensive?
> Do drivers go an extra distance to get cheaper charging?
> How much more expensive is public charging than home charging?
Prices vary, sometimes at the same charger (surge pricing, or increase after x number of hours.)
Faster is usually more more expensive. L3 is typically more than L2. L2 varies from free to about twice what we pay at home. The need for L3 charging for most of us is extremely rare–used only on road trips. (for me, that’s about one trip every e to 4 years).
I doubt most drivers would look for “cheaper” charging. As I said, we charge at home and rarely use public charging. So, the difference once or twice per year of $5 vs. $12 isn’t going to motivate me.
---
### Author:  [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2024, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/107 "2024-05-20T16:00:32Z")
Santa Barbara may be an anomaly but the super chargers are about the same price as charging at home. Electricity is expensive here.
---
### Author:  [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2024, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/108 "2024-05-20T17:48:09Z")
Oddly I found L3 charging more expensive in Canada than USA despite that we make the elctricity and sell some down there. (36 cents US for kWh vs. 59 cents Canadian per kWh).
On road trips such is yours, I would have simply taken the extra half hour to charge at an L3 Tesla Supercharger. At that low a charge, it would charge the first 60% or so quite fast.
The question is how far you need to go. The last 20% could take as long as the first 60% so if you only need a few dozen miles to toodle around the area, charge only to about 60%. Particularly Hertz demands you bring it back same level - aproximately - as you got it, so filling to 100% and bringing it back with 60% is like giving them a half a tank of gas. Plus, when I’ve rented from Hertz, the charge was typically about 92% so the challenge was bring it back close to full (The guy said “anything over 80%”). They had slow chargers at the airport rental so the vehicles were close to full. (IIRC they would charge $30 if they had to charge it.
Overcharges are nothing compared to the class action lawsuit(?) against Hertz for falsely reporting stolen cars. People reported being arrested by police, sometimes at gunpooint, for cars they’d returned on time. (Onee person reported he’d gotten an extension on his rental when his car was late getting out of the body shop, but apparently the extension got lost and the cops came pouunding on his door). So it’s probably a good idea to have a couple of pictures of your rental being returned - electric or not.
---
### Author:  [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2024, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/109 "2024-05-20T19:58:26Z")
> [@zimaane](#):
>
> Do prices vary much between stations in the same area?
Yes, particularly for level 2. As @Procrustus says, it starts at free and goes up from there.
The price of charging is going to be set by the charger owner. For level 3 that is going to almost always be one of a few companies: Tesla, EvGo, Chargepoint, etc. So the prices in an area will tend not to vary from charger to charger. For example, there are 3 Tesla supercharging stations within a few miles of me, and the 4am-6pm price is the same at all of them $0.49/kWh. Oddly, the midnight-4am price is $0.47 at one and $0.39 at another. A nearby ElectrifyAmerica level 3 charger is $0.56/kWh.
However for level 2 it is much more likely the owner is a nearby business, so they can all set their price differently. Within a block of each other nearby are level 2 chargers that are $1/hour, $3/hour, and $0.15kWh.
Just like buying gas, it _might_ be worth going to a different charger to save some money, but sometimes it isn’t worth the trouble. An extreme example is when supercharging on a road trip. It would be cheaper to use the free 6.6 kW level 2 charger than the $0.49/kWh 250kW level 3 charger, but I’d rather be done in 18 minutes than 8 hours.
For me with my BEV, level 2 charging is almost always just because it’s free, otherwise I’d charge at home. A friend with PHEV views it differently. She’ll pay to charge most places, because it’s always going to be cheaper than buying gas. And just like learning which gas stations have the best prices, for the places she usually goes she knows which chargers are the best.
---
### Author:  [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2024, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/110 "2024-05-20T20:03:49Z")
> [@echoreply](#):
>
> A friend with PHEV views it differently. She’ll pay to charge most places, because it’s always going to be cheaper than buying gas.
People talk about EV range anxiety. When I had a PHEV, I was neurotic about finding charging and never using gas if I could avoid it. It wasn’t completely rational (it’s why we buy a PHEV after all, so we don’t have to worry about our charge level). Now that we own two pure EVs, I never (literally never) have worried about my range.
---
### Author:  [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2024, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/111 "2024-05-20T20:26:10Z")
We’re about to have our first public charge. We have to go to Billings for a Drs appointment–it’s 140 miles one-way, so the Caddy _should_ do it in one charge, but the west wind tends to kick up in the afternoon. There’s a HSDC charger next to a pizza place, so might as well add 30 or 40 miles…
---
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2024, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/112 "2024-05-20T21:12:51Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#):
>
> I live in a condo, converted from an apartment building.
> **There are NO plans for chargers, and there is NO MONEY for chargers.**
Simple- Run for the Condo board and get them. If the condo board is full of EV hating Magas- well, then i wouldnt live there.
> [@Procrustus](#):
>
> We just took a road trip precisely _because_ we wanted to experience it with our Tesla Model X.
For example, In Ca you can take a nice Road trip and never be that far from a tesla supercharger.
> [@echoreply](#):
>
> 1. The car was parked with under 5% charge, and then left to sit for months, and it lost the remaining charge, so now it can’t move. Yeah, don’t do that. Like with all things, you can stupid yourself into problems.
Yeah, since even gas will go bad after 6+ months.
> [@hajario](#):
>
> Everything you say about EVs not being ideal for long rural trips is correct but you can certainly charge to 100% and take it down to 2% to accommodate longer legs.
And back in the days of early gas cars, the same problem existed- I submit _The Great Race_!
> [@Shalmanese](#):
>
> Probably a good idea you didn’t get an EV from Hertz since their incompetence …
You can change that to “Probably a good idea you didn’t get a **car** from Hertz since their incompetence…”
> [@hajario](#):
>
> Santa Barbara may be an anomaly…
It certainly is- their continued reluctance to allow caltrans to widen 101 has resulted in the _“Santa Bardera slowdown”._
---
### Author:  [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2024, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/113 "2024-05-20T21:17:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> It certainly is- their continued reluctance to allow caltrans to widen 101 has resulted in the _“Santa Bardera slowdown”._
You’re years out of date. It’s three lanes from Goleta to Montecito and all through Carpinteria. The last few miles to connect the two is about in progress and should be done by year’s end.
---
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2024, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/114 "2024-05-20T21:23:38Z")
> [@hajario](#):
>
> You’re years out of date. It’s three lanes from Goleta to Montecito and all through Carpinteria. The last few miles to connect the two is about in progress and should be done by year’s end.
Nope, we just drove it and the SBSlowdown is still there. Yes- they _are finally_ working on it, despite SB yelling, kicking and screaming. By years end? With Caltrans? You’re a glass all the way full kind of optimist, eh? 🤪 😆
---
### Author:  [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2024, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/115 "2024-05-20T21:31:53Z")
And you didn’t stop by for a beer?
---
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2024, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/116 "2024-05-20T21:36:02Z")
Sorry.
My buddy and I drive up to the _Shoreline_ Beach _Cafe_ on Leadbetter Beach about once a month or maybe twice. Great place.
---
### Author:  [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2024, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/117 "2024-05-20T21:46:26Z")
You can’t beat the view. I’ll sometimes take a walk from Shoreline Park down the hill to there or farther down to the harbor and back, occasionally stopping for a bite.
---
### Author:  [@Jegpeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jegpeg)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2024, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/118 "2024-05-20T22:13:43Z")
> [@dtilque](#):
>
> The way to go is to plan the trip ahead of time in terms of which chargers you will use. And then only charge enough at any one stop to get you to the next charger. So a long trip turns into 2-3 hour drives punctutated by 20-25 minute breaks. One advantage is that you arrive much more refreshed than typically is the case with ICE vehicles, where you drive straight through for 8 or more hours, with only short 5 minute-ish breaks every 4 hours.
Nothing to stop you doing this in an ICE vehicle and it is good practise to do so. It isn’t just an arrive refreshed it is safer. In the UK commercial drivers must have a 45 minute break after driving 4.5 hours, but it is recommended to have a rest every 2 hours which I do.
_ **Driving for long periods:** Research has found driving deteriorates after two hours of continuous driving, as you become less able to concentrate, and slower to react to hazards. The longer you drive, the more rest you need to recover driving performance. Breaks are therefore recommended every two hours._
Taken from
[https://www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/take-action/mybrake/knowledge-centre/driver-fatigue](https://www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/take-action/mybrake/knowledge-centre/driver-fatigue)
---
### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2024, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/119 "2024-05-21T02:09:47Z")
THERE
IS
NO
MONEY.
Period.
A $20k assessment created a near-rebellion among owners, recently.
Essential repairs.
Trying to raise the cash for EV chargers is OUT.
And I can’t afford to move.
BTW–snide, much?
---
### Author:  [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2024, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613/120 "2024-05-21T12:35:45Z")
Ah yes. Back before networking was a thing, in the early days of PC’s - the joke when one department wanted networking was - “first one across the river pays for the bridge”.
So how would that work? Do you have to upgrade the building feed and transformer to allow everyone, or could you get away with running just one 240V40A circuit to your parking stall at your own cost? (At which point, the first 5 or 10 people can do this, then the building needs a power upgrade for the next one?)
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613.md?page=5)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-public-available-charging-of-electric-vehicles-work/999613.md?page=7)