# How does Sabbath inspection work without violating the Sabbath? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 31, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-sabbath-inspection-work-without-violating-the-sabbath/165552 "2003-03-31T21:41:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-sabbath-inspection-work-without-violating-the-sabbath/165552/1 "2003-03-31T21:41:16Z")
This story notes that the religious conservatives in Israel are steamed because the government wont enforce the Sabbath. [http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030330.wmide0330/BNStory/International](http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030330.wmide0330/BNStory/International) But what it doesn’t explain, and I don’t get, is how anyone could perform the job of Sabbath inspector during the Sabbath without breaking it. ## If the solution is that they use non-Jews as enforcers (all I can think of), isn’t this also a doctrinal problem, how is this justified in terms of orthodox ideas? Shomer Freakin’ Shabbots! ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-sabbath-inspection-work-without-violating-the-sabbath/165552/2 "2003-03-31T21:53:20Z")
Enforcing the Sabbath is not work, in the sense of productive labor, nor is it business. It is a religious duty (or at least a religious act) and so is not forbidden on the Sabbath. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-sabbath-inspection-work-without-violating-the-sabbath/165552/3 "2003-03-31T21:58:41Z")
Note also that hiring non-Jews to do Sabbath work is not against the rules. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-sabbath-inspection-work-without-violating-the-sabbath/165552/4 "2003-03-31T22:03:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ftg \* > \*\*Note also that hiring non-Jews to do Sabbath work is not against the rules. \*\* I thought it was. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-sabbath-inspection-work-without-violating-the-sabbath/165552/5 "2003-04-01T00:55:09Z")
It is forbidden for a Jew to have a non-Jew do for him something that is biblically forbidden on Sabbath. But it is permitted for a Jew to have a non-Jew do for him something that is only forbidden by Rabbinical decree. I can only assume that the job of these “Sabbath inspectors” does not require violation of Sabbath rules - biblical if non-Jews are used, and even Rabbinic if Jews are used. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-sabbath-inspection-work-without-violating-the-sabbath/165552/6 "2003-04-01T04:19:51Z")
—Enforcing the Sabbath is not work, in the sense of productive labor, nor is it business. It is a religious duty (or at least a religious act) and so is not forbidden on the Sabbath.— Is it, or are you just assuming it is? This is a practice in the state of Israel, not something that all Jews everywhere do. This seems like a political function, not a religious one, and it’s hard to see how people assessing fines for a law inspired by religion would be any different than people assessing fines for parking violations. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-sabbath-inspection-work-without-violating-the-sabbath/165552/7 "2003-04-01T05:26:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\*This seems like a political function, not a religious one, and it’s hard to see how people assessing fines for a law inspired by religion would be any different than people assessing fines for parking violations. \*\* Well, yeah, assessing fines, I’d imagine, would involve writing, which is forbidden on the Sabbath. I don’t know how you’d do it… ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-sabbath-inspection-work-without-violating-the-sabbath/165552/8 "2003-04-01T08:00:50Z")
I was wondering about this while I was on call Friday night, and this seems like a good place to ask… How would an Orthodox Jew complete a medical residency? In private practice, it woul be easy enough to get a non-Jew to take call for you on the Sabbath, but in residency one is required to take overnight call in-house on a regular schedule (usually every fourth night these days) for a lot of the time. I can’t imagine a program agreeing not to require a resident to take call on a certain day of the week, especially Friday night-Saturday, since it would mean that the other residents necessarily have to take that crappy shift more often than they should have to. Then again, I’m sure there are Orthodox Jewish doctors out there. Is there an exception for people who provide necessary services like doctors? Dr. J ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-sabbath-inspection-work-without-violating-the-sabbath/165552/9 "2003-04-01T08:17:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DoctorJ \* > \*\* > > Is there an exception for people who provide necessary services like doctors? > > Dr. J \*\* Yes - _Pikuch Nefesh_, the greatest loophole in Judaism, states that virtually any Halachic law is superceded by the necessity to preserve life. I’m not a doctor, but I did serve in the IDF with observant Orthodox Jews, and none of them had any problem with sentry duty, patrols or operational activity on the Sabbath, so long as it was the real deal (i.e. no training exercizes). As for the O.P. - according to Jewish law, only Jews are required to keep the Sabbath. Non-Jews are required to observe the laws of their own religioun, if any. There is a long - and in my opinion, rather contemptable - Jewish tradition of employing “Sabbath Goys” to handle all sorts of tasks that Jews are forbidden. The Israeli Ministry of Labor, BTW, employs Druze for Sabbath supervision. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-sabbath-inspection-work-without-violating-the-sabbath/165552/10 "2003-04-01T08:35:51Z")
Does a Sabbath inspector pay better than a bikini inspector? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-sabbath-inspection-work-without-violating-the-sabbath/165552/11 "2003-04-01T13:58:26Z")
I have to add that Israel’s Sabbath laws are as much a legacy of the nation’s socialist past as they are elements of religious coercion. Supposedly, they’re there so that workers aren’t forced to work seven days a week. ---
**Author:** ![Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ac91a4/32.png) [@Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knighted_Vorpal_Sword)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-sabbath-inspection-work-without-violating-the-sabbath/165552/12 "2003-04-01T14:07:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DoctorJ \* > \*\*I was wondering about this while I was on call Friday night, and this seems like a good place to ask… > > How would an Orthodox Jew complete a medical residency? In private practice, it woul be easy enough to get a non-Jew to take call for you on the Sabbath, but in residency one is required to take overnight call in-house on a regular schedule (usually every fourth night these days) for a lot of the time. \*\* There are some residency programs for Orthodox Jews - Sinai Hospital here in Baltimore has one. I know at least two doctors who went through the program. Basically, it allowed them to take Friday night and Saturday off, but they worked Saturday night and Sunday instead. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-sabbath-inspection-work-without-violating-the-sabbath/165552/13 "2003-04-01T15:15:39Z")
Captain Amazing: > [@](#): > > Well, yeah, assessing fines, I’d imagine, would involve writing, which is forbidden on the Sabbath. I don’t know how you’d do it… I suppose a person could keep in memory the stores that are in ciolation and write the tickets after the Sabbath. Snooooopy: > [@](#): > > Does a Sabbath inspector pay better than a bikini inspector? Yes, but there are fewer perks. 🙂 Alessan: > [@](#): > > I have to add that Israel’s Sabbath laws are as much a legacy of the nation’s socialist past as they are elements of religious coercion. Supposedly, they’re there so that workers aren’t forced to work seven days a week. Only partially true. Not allowing a seven-day workweek has been a labor movement standard since before the state existed. But specifically choosing Saturday as the day of national shut-down was part of the “Status Quo” agreement between David Ben-Gurion and the religious establishment way back at the beginning of the state. Chaim Mattis Keller ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-sabbath-inspection-work-without-violating-the-sabbath/165552/14 "2003-04-01T16:29:21Z")
In one (modern) Orthodox family I know, the wife is an OB-GYN, and served her medical residence at New York Hospital. AFAIK there was no special program for Orthodox residents; and in her specialty, of course, scheduling is often not an option. But _pikuch nefesh_ controlled. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-sabbath-inspection-work-without-violating-the-sabbath/165552/15 "2003-04-01T19:30:11Z")
—The Israeli Ministry of Labor, BTW, employs Druze for Sabbath supervision.— Oy? What are they? ---
**Author:** ![Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ac91a4/32.png) [@Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knighted_Vorpal_Sword)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-sabbath-inspection-work-without-violating-the-sabbath/165552/16 "2003-04-01T19:56:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\*—The Israeli Ministry of Labor, BTW, employs Druze for Sabbath supervision.— > > Oy? What are they? \*\* [http://www.religioustolerance.org/druse.htm](http://www.religioustolerance.org/druse.htm)