# How does someone with no business acumen get to be the richest person in the world? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 14, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903 "2022-11-14T19:46:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/181 "2022-11-22T05:19:51Z")
Well, you dug deep. A pity you didn’t actually read further: > [@private space programs-are any realistic?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-space-programs-are-any-realistic/426134/26): > > The first failure of the Falcon 1 booster was due to the (entirely inappropriate) use of an aluminum fastener. Their explanation: we thought the more expensive fastener would be better, despite NAS and NASA guidelines to avoid the use of fastener alloys prone to stress corrosion cracking (SCC) in critical joining applications. ([“The irony is we are replacing them with a cheaper component to increase reliability,” he said.](http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/060719_falcon1_update.html) No, Elon, that’s not irony, it’s bad reliability assessment and component selection.) That SpaceX has enjoyed the success that it has is entirely due to the efforts of the many skilled and talented engineers working there, and almost not at all from any supposed expertise or ‘leadership’ brought by Elon Musk. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/182 "2022-11-22T05:35:28Z")
Search engines make it fun and easy to dig up past predictions. I may post others later (not from you; I want to spread the joy). The thing is, you were entirely correct to call them clueless. They were. It’s just that _none of that mattered_ in the long run, because Musk assembled a great team of people that eventually worked the kinks out. By the time the Falcon 9 launched, they apparently had enough expertise that your concerns about resonant vibration or flow control problems were anticipated and accounted for in the design. And likewise, the cluelessness on display now is almost certainly not relevant in the long run. This story came up recently: > **[Why Twitter Didn’t Go Down: From a Real Twitter SRE](https://matthewtejo.substack.com/p/why-twitter-didnt-go-down-from-a)** > > Twitter supposedly lost around 80% of its work force. What ever the real number is, there are whole teams with out engineers on it now. Yet, the website goes on and the tweets keep coming. This left a lot wondering what exactly was going on with all... To summarize: Twitter has a robust, fault-tolerant, redundant system that is not likely to go down in the short term. It is possible that they are accruing technical debt, but they nevertheless have quite a bit of runway ahead of them. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/183 "2022-11-22T05:56:06Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > It is possible that they are accruing technical debt, but they nevertheless have quite a bit of runway ahead of them. Elon is doing his level best to destroy every bit of “runway” left, all in service of elevating Trump, Greene, and other would-be demagogues promoting hateful rhetoric. How does that factor into your ‘genius entrepreneur’ narrative? Stramger ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/184 "2022-11-22T05:57:55Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > That SpaceX has enjoyed the success that it has is entirely due to the efforts of the many skilled and talented engineers working there, and almost not at all from any supposed expertise or ‘leadership’ brought by Elon Musk. > > Stranger I think I’ll take Tom Mueller’s opinion over your’s. [https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1512919230689148929?s=20&t=GGFDjWoch9iMSq1kTTol1Q](https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1512919230689148929?s=20&t=GGFDjWoch9iMSq1kTTol1Q) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/185 "2022-11-22T06:02:25Z")
I’m not going to ascribe this to any genius on the part of Musk, but I could not have hoped for a better outcome with Trump. He is not coming back to Twitter, especially not after Musk’s goading. And so now we have a situation where Trump remains on his stupid Mastodon shard, because if Musk has paper-thin skin, then Trump is as of graphene; but the right can no longer claim that he is being oppressed by the cancel-culture libruls. It’s absolutely perfect. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/186 "2022-11-22T06:08:18Z")
To answer the thread’s question, you don’t. Elon has or at the very least had business acumen, and trying to justify otherwise always ends up exposing the poster’s hatred for the man. It’s ok to hate the guy, to think he’s a piece of shit that shouldn’t have anything good attributed to him, but you absolutely can not deny that he has built two companies that have completely changed the auto and space markets, something that can’t be said of anyone in the last 100 years. The excuse that he came from money, got a $30k investment in his first company from his dad, so this was just inevitable and predictable is just asinine. It’s so bewildering to me that otherwise smart people let personal feelings get in the way of just stating that this guy has had more sucess than any amount of luck would provide. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/187 "2022-11-22T11:17:57Z")
Well here, I’ll make a simple one to search for later: PREDICTION: Twitter may continue to exist in some form if Musk gets rid of it before he completely destroys the value of the brand itself, but it will be a shadow of its former self at best (which lets keep in mind, Twitter is a pretty small social media outlet compared to the big boys). However, I do think it likely that it will die as a direct result of Musk ineptitude. Musk is doing everything he can to turn it into a cesspool that will drive away all advertisers except the like of Lindell’s MyPillow. His other attempts to monetize Twitter will broadly fail, especially if he decides to make it PayPal 2 and turn it into a bank. So there you go, you can search for that one later on and we’ll see what happens. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/188 "2022-11-22T11:24:19Z")
Both Tesla and SpaceX would have died an early death if not for outside intervention. Any articles written about Musk would be saying “Musk: The Man Who Thought He Could be Iron Man But Failed.” There precious little evidence that Tesla and SpaceX succeeded because of anything Musk did. There’s ample evidence that Musk routinely makes bizarrely bad choices of many kinds including engineering. There’s ample evidence that he cannot lead companies, and that companies sometimes succeed despite him. I’m not saying he definitely didn’t contribute anything to Tesla and SpaceX ever (other than money), but it seems to be precious little. So maybe, if we’re being generous, we can say that some small percentage of Tesla and SpaceX success is due to Musk. This is so vastly different than some high quality (but still scummy in many cases, which I mention because it is possible to recognize somebody as not a good person but still a business succcess) CEOs that definitely led their companies to great success. Bezos is a great example. He treats his employees like dirt. I don’t like him. But he unquestionably built Amazon. Not singlehandedly of course, nobody ever does. But he was integral to their success. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/189 "2022-11-22T15:55:21Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > Both Tesla and SpaceX would have died an early death if not for outside intervention. Any articles written about Musk would be saying “Musk: The Man Who Thought He Could be Iron Man But Failed.” **There precious little evidence that Tesla and SpaceX succeeded because of anything Musk did. There’s ample evidence that Musk routinely makes bizarrely bad choices of many kinds including engineering.** There’s ample evidence that he cannot lead companies, and that companies sometimes succeed despite him. I’m not saying he definitely didn’t contribute anything to Tesla and SpaceX ever (other than money), but it seems to be precious little. I’m curious, where is all of this ample evidence hiding? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/190 "2022-11-22T16:24:46Z")
> [@nate](#): > > To answer the thread’s question, you don’t. I ask the question after seeing what he’s doing at Twitter, not as a result of a survey of his other companies. It seems that what he has done at Twitter is 100% shooting from the hip, out of emotion or ego, without an analysis of how the business works, or projection of the consequences of his decisions. “Whoops! My advertisers are pulling out! Didn’t see that one coming!” “Whoops! Employees are quitting because they don’t want to work 100 hours a week to make more profit for me! Didn’t see that one coming!” Let’s say he showed up on Shark Tank because he needed funding for Twitter. He would not be able to articulate a business plan, just some vague shit about free speech and reinstating Donald Trump. Those guys would eat him alive. That’s what I mean by no business acumen. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/191 "2022-11-22T16:53:53Z")
> [@nate](#): > > I’m curious, where is all of this ample evidence hiding? Don’t fall for the bait, anyone. Whatever evidence and citations you provide [will be brushed away by the poster’s bare-assed assertion that they don’t actually mean what is plainly written.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/349) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/192 "2022-11-22T17:15:40Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I ask the question after seeing what he’s doing at Twitter, not as a result of a survey of his other companies. It seems that what he has done at Twitter is 100% shooting from the hip, out of emotion or ego, without an analysis of how the business works, or projection of the consequences of his decisions. It’s called hubris and I would guess it comes from having built two or three insanely successful companies in the past. It seems to me if he ran his other companies the same way he is running twitter, well, we probably would’ve never heard the name Elon Musk. But I also believe he’s earned the benefit of the doubt and so I don’t count him out. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/193 "2022-11-22T17:19:36Z")
Have you read this and the other Musk threads? Like at all? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/194 "2022-11-22T17:27:24Z")
**Modnotes** : This is pretty close to attack the poster. Please keep that to the pit. However, @nate, the complaint seems to have merit that you’re ignoring cites in multiple threads and posts like this resemble sealioning. > [@nate](#): > > I’m curious, where is all of this ample evidence hiding? ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/195 "2022-11-22T19:09:07Z")
sorry, this was meant to be a PM to What\_Exit. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/196 "2022-11-22T20:29:34Z")
Just as a counterpoint, here’s a story about successful electric automaker Rivian. The founder and CEO is Robert Scaringe. Unlike Musk, he has an actual Master’s degree (from MIT, no less) in mechanical engineering, and also a Ph.D. from MIT in mechanical engineering specializing in automotive technology. Unlike Musk, he hasn’t lied about his degrees. And unlike Musk, by all accounts he’s not an asshole and seems like a pretty nice guy. So apparently being an unqualified asshole is NOT a prerequisite to success in a high-tech industry. > **[Rivian's CEO created buzzy, outdoorsy EVs. Now big automakers are coming...](https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/22/cars/risk-takers-rj-scaringe-rivian-ceo/index.html)** > > Rivian CEO Robert Joseph Scaringe, better known as RJ, is living his lifelong dream. Getting here though has required dedication to a vision that once seemed nearly impossible. Even now, as the company's assembly lines have started churning out its... ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/197 "2022-11-22T21:46:38Z")
On the other hand… [https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/rivian-workers-complain-about-safety-conditions](https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/rivian-workers-complain-about-safety-conditions) > At least a dozen employees at **[Rivian Automotive Inc.](https://www.autonews.com/topic/rivian)** have accused the electric-vehicle maker of safety violations at its Illinois plant, according to complaints filed with federal regulators. > The complaints allege the company ignored known hazards and deprioritized safety resources, leaving some workers to share respirators needed during the manufacturing process. They also detail a range of injuries, including a crushed hand, a broken foot, a sliced ear and broken ribs. One Rivian employee said management fished damaged electrical cables out of the garbage and told employees to use them. > Together, the filings depict an automaker that cut corners as it scaled rapidly to keep pace in the competitive EV space. Some employees described safety protocols that faded as production pressures grew on its trademark plug-in pickup. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/198 "2022-11-22T21:51:13Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > On the other hand… On the third hand … > **[Inside Tesla’s Model 3 Factory, Where Safety Violations Keep Rising](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2019/03/01/tesla-safety-violations-dwarf-big-us-auto-plants-in-aftermath-of-musks-model-3-push/?sh=1ea19e9054ce)** > > As Tesla announces a more affordable model, its Fremont, California factory workforce had already felt heavy pressure to produce enough cars. And the strains showed: safety regulators have assessed more fines at the plant other large U.S. automotive... > **[Tesla's Texas Gigafactory faces more complaints of alleged labor violations](https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/teslas-texas-gigafactory-faces-more-complaints-alleged-labor-violations)** > > The Workers Defense Project has filed a pair of complaints against Tesla alleging safety and wage law violations during construction of the company's Austin Gigafactory. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/199 "2022-11-22T21:55:50Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > PREDICTION: Twitter may continue to exist in some form if Musk gets rid of it before he completely destroys the value of the brand itself, but it will be a shadow of its former self at best That’s not very concrete. Here, let me propose one: Twitter will not in the next year fall out of the top-10 ranking by this list: [https://www.similarweb.com/top-websites/](https://www.similarweb.com/top-websites/) Twitter is currently #4 by the October stats. I’m willing to acknowledge the possibility of a drop, but staying within the top 10 would hardly reflect “destroying” the brand. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/200 "2022-11-22T21:59:52Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > On the third hand … I didn’t say anything about Musk. You said that the Rivian CEO “seems like a pretty nice guy”, but apparently being nice doesn’t trickle down to workforce safety. I _don’t_ actually think being an asshole is a prerequisite to leading a high-tech company. It just doesn’t seem like the Rivian guy is a counterexample. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903.md?page=11)