# How does someone with no business acumen get to be the richest person in the world? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 14, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903 "2022-11-14T19:46:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2022, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/261 "2022-11-27T01:52:47Z")
I’m going to bet that the Elon who got involved in SpaceX in 2002 is a very different guy than the one who got involved in Twitter in 2022. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2022, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/262 "2022-11-27T02:37:32Z")
People have been saying something to this effect or years every time Musk does or says something outlandish but he’s always been this way, certainly since the early SpaceX days and by reputation at Zip2, [X.com/PayPal](http://X.com/PayPal), and his days as an investor-cum-‘founder’ of Tesla, where his original plan was almost total automation of all aspects of vehicle assembly, a strategy that nearly bankrupted the company before they switched to a more traditional assembly line model of using robots to perform repetitious and heavy manipulation while human workers did the fine manipulation work. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2022, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/263 "2022-11-27T04:23:43Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’m going to bet that the Elon who got involved in SpaceX in 2002 is a very different guy than the one who got involved in Twitter in 2022. This is my thought as well. I think his success coupled with being on the spectrum, the hubris that arises from upending the launch and electric car markets becoming the richest man in the world, gives him too much confidence in the way he runs his businesses. I mean, I get why, I think anyone that was a integral part of the success of PayPal, Tesla, and SpaceX would have unwavering confidence in oneself for taking on the next business. But something changed about the guy during the Covid period and his latest venture with Twitter has been a disaster. I don’t think the guy gets that you shouldn’t piss off half the country when you are trying to sell things, especially if one of those things is an advertising platform, and it seems like he’s doubling down on that. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2022, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/264 "2022-11-27T12:34:37Z")
> [@nate](#): > > integral part of the success of PayPal He was not an integral part of the success of PayPal. His ideas at PayPal were bad, which got him removed as CEO. He wanted it to be a full online bank (hmmm… didn’t he say he wanted make Twitter a bank? I guess he still thinks that’s a good idea), others such as Thiel (ugh) wanted to focus on peer-to-peer, which Musk did not support. He also wanted to make some bizarre technology choices. Thiel (ugh) was brought in and made PayPal a success. PayPal succeeded despite Musk, not because of him. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2022, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/265 "2022-11-27T13:31:42Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > (hmmm… didn’t he say he wanted make Twitter a bank? I guess he still thinks that’s a good idea) As **[Willy Sutton never quite said](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Sutton#%22Sutton's_law%22)**: > Q: Why did you rob banks? > A: Because that’s where the money is. Perhaps Elon thinks that’d be a good place to stick his straw into the cashflow. He certainly would not be the first or last person to get even more rich running (or skimming) a bank. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2022, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/266 "2022-11-27T23:22:55Z")
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**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2022, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/267 "2022-11-27T23:44:53Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > His efforts at greenwashing are so patently nonsense that Tesla has been removed from several sustainability indices [for not actually being very sustainable or environmentally friendly](https://www.coolerfuture.com/blog/tesla-sustainability) The same S&P 500 ESG index that has _fucking EXXON_ as a top-10 holding? > **[S&P 500 ESG Index | S&P Dow Jones Indices](https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/indices/esg/sp-500-esg-index/#data)** > > The S&P 500 ESG Index is a broad-based, market-cap-weighted index that is designed to measure the performance of securities meeting sustainability criteria, while maintaining similar overall It’s hilarious that you would cite being dropped from an index which is itself 100% greenwashing as evidence of greenwashing. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2022, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/268 "2022-11-27T23:53:38Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > It’s hilarious that you would cite being dropped from an index which is itself 100% greenwashing as evidence of greenwashing. Whataboutisit? Yeah, that’s what thought. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/269 "2022-11-28T00:01:58Z")
Come on. You can’t seriously claim that being on or off the S&P 500 ESG index is evidence of anything in particular. It’s ridiculous that you’d use it as part of an argument. If you want to claim Tesla is greenwashing, go ahead, cite some reasonable evidence. But ESG bullshit is not it. Even if one actually took their rankings seriously, it sure looks like the E part gets short shift compared to the S and G parts, despite the E being the actual existential problem and the S and G being… less so. The page you linked to acknowledges that the carbon emission aspect of EVs, including Tesla, is completely legit. Cobalt mining (which Tesla has significantly reduced their use of via LFP cells) might be bad for the people mining it, and causes local environmental damage, but again: it’s not the existential threat that climate change imposes. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/270 "2022-11-28T00:19:44Z")
So you’re taking issue with one line of a four paragraph post based upon your issues with a single sustainability index? Try harder. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/271 "2022-11-28T00:39:24Z")
The perspective you express in the rest of the post is not completely without merit. EVs, by themselves, cannot fix the climate change problem. However, the transportation sector is not insignificant, and furthermore we have seen full well that efficiency by itself is not attractive to consumers. Tesla produced a product which _is_ attractive to consumers and has the side effect of producing fewer emissions, and which can be reduced to zero carbon emissions as the electrical generation sector improves. I will say that this is factually false: > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > That he has inspired the public to look to electric vehicles for absurdly high performance (and corresponding price and build costs) has actually compromised the environmental merits of electric vehicles The high performance has not significantly compromised the environmental merits, if by that you mean general efficiency (since over an extended period, efficiency is what matters most). Unlike a combustion engine, which is even less efficient at low loads, the same is not true of an EV. A high power electric motor has close to the same efficiency as a low power one for the same power output. Sometimes more so. A large motor and battery also improves regeneration performance, which is significant in city driving. Generally speaking, Teslas score well on efficiency rankings compared to the competition, despite being mostly better performance. Ironically, the 2022 Lucid Air Grand Touring is near the top of the list despite being a 1050 horsepower monster (they have out-Teslaed Tesla in a way, though with a price to match). You might argue that nevertheless, cars like the Model S and X make a poor build cost tradeoff vs. something less extravagant. But their competition isn’t Priuses, it’s BMW 5-series and the like. And against those they score very well. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/272 "2022-11-28T00:50:52Z")
As far as the rest of the transportation sector goes, the Tesla Semi is on the verge of being released. The first deliveries to Pepsi are to be made in December. Bill Gates said this a while back: [https://www.thestreet.com/technology/elon-musk-sends-special-invitation-to-bill-gates](https://www.thestreet.com/technology/elon-musk-sends-special-invitation-to-bill-gates) > Even with big breakthroughs in battery technology, electric vehicles will probably never be a practical solution for things like 18-wheelers, cargo ships, and passenger jets. Well, he might yet be right about cargo ships and jets. However, he clearly did not actually do the math for 18-wheelers as they are clearly practical. If you _want_ to see the math: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Uv44W7xa4IU/maxresdefault.jpg "Does The Tesla Semi Make Any Sense?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv44W7xa4IU) Short answer: yes, a 500 mile @ 82k lb load is possible, though it does assume close to optimum conditions. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/273 "2022-11-28T01:20:59Z")
Yeah, it ought to be awesome when those brake in the middle of the highway for no reason. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/274 "2022-11-28T01:35:13Z")
Will that happen more or less often than accidents caused by sleep-deprived/distracted/meth-addled/etc. semi drivers? Phantom braking (which exists on all ADAS systems to some extent) rarely causes more than a small glitch, and if following drivers give as much distance to semis as they should, would never actually cause an accident. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/275 "2022-11-28T18:18:40Z")
Elon posted a pic of what he claims to be his bedside table. Not even commenting on the multiple cans of Cokes on the table, he keeps two guns out, open, on the table. Do any of his ten kids live with him? > **[Elon Musk sleeps with 2 guns on his bedside. Here's how internet is reacting](https://www.livemint.com/news/world/elon-musk-sleeps-with-2-guns-on-his-bedside-here-s-how-internet-is-reacting-11669633674463.html)** > > The guns include a revolver that looks like a film prop, while, the other looks like a 19th-century pistol ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/276 "2022-11-28T18:36:51Z")
I’m not sure Elon even knows how many children he has, much less has custody of any of them. The weapon in the box is a reproduction flintlock, and is presumably not loaded or primed even if it is an actual firing unit, and the ‘revolver’ looks like some kind of pot metal toy; you can see that the ‘cylinder’ doesn’t actually have any chambers bored through it, and there is no trigger in the trigger guard. Given that the thing is apparently held together with Phillips head screws it would probably shake itself apart even if it were capable of firing actual rounds of any kind. I’d be more concerned with what a slob this makes him appear; not only the four cans of (presumably consumed) Caffeine-Free Diet Coke but all of the can rings on the table and whatever that double-ended piece of…bedroom appliance (?) is. What was the intent of posting the picture? Is he trying to out-dysfunction “‘Ye” or just prove that you are never too old to be a frat boy? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/277 "2022-11-28T18:56:43Z")
It’s a Deus Ex “replica”. (Credit to someone in the reddit thread I looked up, assuming they’d figured it out.) Like the one in this 3D printing model: > **[Deus Ex: Human Revolution Diamondback .357 Revolver Model - Etsy](https://www.etsy.com/listing/555328899/deus-ex-human-revolution-diamondback-357)** > > This Patterns & How To item by SlukaIndustries has 430 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from United States. Listed on Dec 8, 2022 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/278 "2022-11-30T13:43:31Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Other manufacturers pay Tesla for regulatory credits because they are still producing ICE cars. They wouldn’t have to pay a single dime if they simply produced enough EVs. That would be the ideal outcome > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > No. But at the moment you have two choices for an EV: > > - Produced by a company with an asshole at the helm > - Produced by a company that is still hastening the end of civilization by producing ICE cars, has lied for ages about the consequences of climate change, stalled as long as possible to transition to EVs, and many worse things I’m confused. Do you think people should be encouraging other manufacturers to shift to EVs (by buying their EVs) or not? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/279 "2022-11-30T20:20:06Z")
Of course I think people should buy EVs. My point is simply that people don’t have the luxury of picking a manufacturer with perfect credentials, because they don’t exist. And that people should keep some _perspective_ about the matter, because the lies from traditional companies have been far worse than anything from Musk. If a person’s conclusion from that is that they’ll just ride a bike, then great! But if someone says “I’m not buying a Tesla because of Musk’s antics; I’ll buy a Volkswagen instead”, then I’m going to remind them of how Volkswagen murdered hundreds of people with their Dieselgate lies. As for me, I think people should buy whatever EV they want. If VW has the best EV for you, get that. Pinning the decision based on irrelevant factors seems dumb to me. Yes, at some level I don’t like rewarding companies for their past crimes, but to beat climate change we don’t really have any choice in the matter. Whatever you do, though, don’t buy a fucking ICE car. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/280 "2022-11-30T20:36:36Z")
It’s not just Elon Musk. The video below notes that guys like Mark Zuckerberg, Same Bankman-Fried and Elon Musk are anything but smart businessmen. Musk severely damaged Twitter in a week and he didn’t really start Tesla. Zuckerberg is not handling Meta well at all and Bankman-Fried oversaw an Enron level collapse. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/oVj4kZF-Fgk/maxresdefault.jpg "Elon Musk Is An Idiot (and so are Zuck and SBF)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVj4kZF-Fgk) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903.md?page=15)