# How does streaming vs viewing live or OnDemand or DV impact the networks decision on renewing shows? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 12, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-streaming-vs-viewing-live-or-ondemand-or-dv-impact-the-networks-decision-on-renewing-shows/782038 "2017-03-12T23:02:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-streaming-vs-viewing-live-or-ondemand-or-dv-impact-the-networks-decision-on-renewing-shows/782038/1 "2017-03-12T23:02:58Z")
Taking out a distracting conversation from the Legion thread. Here’s [one explanation](http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/which-makes-networks-more-money-hulu-vs-netflix-and-more/) but I think it is already out of date. Obviously streaming services like Hulu pay either the networks or the studio that produces the show money for the rights to stream them. Streaming services now have shows monitored for viewership as well and no doubt a show streamed more demands a higher fee from the network or production company. Not all money comes from ads now. Any StraightDope out there? ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-streaming-vs-viewing-live-or-ondemand-or-dv-impact-the-networks-decision-on-renewing-shows/782038/2 "2017-03-12T23:28:25Z")
Originally posted in the other thread - > [@Legion (show on FX)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-show-on-fx/779378/92): > > Of COURSE you do, because using the ratings in the first place is a DUMB system that no longer reflects the true popularity of a show. As we veer off topic, the point isn’t how popular the show is - it’s how does someone get paid to make it. If there was a way to recoup the costs of production and make a decent profit with just a single viewer - the show would be made for that just that one guy. But, the reality for the people who make tv is that too few advertisers are willing to pay for you to binge watch (in fact, unless you’re one of the people paying 3.99 or more per episode, you’re not willing to pay for you to binge watch, so why on earth would an advertiser?) Until we get a change to companies becoming willing to pay for binge watchers or we move to a pay-per-episode, pay-per-season, or pay-per-service model, shows that people will only watch in binges get cancelled because there’s no money to produce the show. In contrast, shows that people will watch every week will tend to continue. Pointing out that binge-watching contributes to shows getting cancelled isn’t a moral judgment or a value judgment, it’s just pointing out the consequence of an action. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-streaming-vs-viewing-live-or-ondemand-or-dv-impact-the-networks-decision-on-renewing-shows/782038/3 "2017-03-12T23:56:33Z")
Exactly. And the “better model” for shows will likely involve pay-to-play. Cable is itself pay-to-play, but I think the next evolution is going to involve being nickel-and-dimed to death so that either: 1. You miss out on shows you would have liked and watched but aren’t paying for them specifically, compared to today when it comes “free” in your giant cable package. (FX shows, AMC shows, etc…) or 1. You get to watch all the shows you would have watched if it were part of your giant cable package, but you end up paying _more_ money to all the little content distributors than you would have paid for a flat cable subscription. For example, CBS is trying to make CBS All Access happen. I’m not going to subscribe to it, as I’m guessing most people won’t. So the shows on that service just won’t be seen. Certainly not by me, at least. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-streaming-vs-viewing-live-or-ondemand-or-dv-impact-the-networks-decision-on-renewing-shows/782038/4 "2017-03-13T00:08:22Z")
Well obviously Hulu (and others), paid by us, pays for content, and very likely pay more for content that more watch than content that one person watches. More streaming the show, whenever they do, means more who more likely view their service as a must have worth paying for. In short I do pay to binge watch … and to have access to episodes shows I only decided to watch after they started, like Legion. I pay fees to several services and like many if I had to choose what to let go it would be the cable for TV in real time. Streaming is pay-to-play. It will be hard for CBS to have something worth enough to pay for as a standalone. It might happen but I doubt it. Being able to binging old seasons of Breaking Bad as the buzz caught hold brought people into viewing Netflix as valuable enough to pay for. Knowing it was highly viewed as a streamed show the owners of the property could theoretically charge Netflix more. (Not sure if they did; don’t know.) The metrics increasingly exist to follow that viewership with accuracy. I now have Netflix just as much to watch their Marvel shows as streaming movies and am looking forward to Amazon’s The Tick. More of the new shows that appeal to me have been original to the streamers in fact. (Although far from all.) I thought about putting this in GQ as a question: how much do the streamers pay the networks and the studios for various shows? Not sure if the answer is knowable. And then there is the harder to measure. Take viewers like me. I did not start off watching Legion, busy. But when I had a block to watch something I noted that the show sounded interesting and the first posts in the thread here intrigued me so I binged on Hulu to catch up as far as Hulu went, OnDemanded the last one, and am now up to date likely to watch via DVR within a day or two all new broadcasts. If streaming was not an option I never would have started the show … a show like that you do not start at episode 6. Viewers like me are added to the ad exposed numbers because of streaming. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-streaming-vs-viewing-live-or-ondemand-or-dv-impact-the-networks-decision-on-renewing-shows/782038/5 "2017-03-13T00:12:42Z")
Also: > [@Legion (show on FX)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-show-on-fx/779378/92): > > Of COURSE you do, because using the ratings in the first place is a DUMB system that no longer reflects the true popularity of a show. Ratings aren’t about popularity, they’re about counting how many people watched. They are not a DUMB system for that purpose. Imagine you just spent $100 million producing a tentpole movie for your movie studio. Movies live or die on opening day, so you need to get butts in seats this weekend or your entire studio might begin a death spiral. In this hypothetical scenario, do you care at all that special snowflakes will be watching Show X in four months during a binge weekend? No, of course not. You care about reaching people **this week** , and will pay tons of money to make that happen. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-streaming-vs-viewing-live-or-ondemand-or-dv-impact-the-networks-decision-on-renewing-shows/782038/6 "2017-03-13T00:42:14Z")
You are still defending a dead system. Things no longer work that way because binge watching is a superior option for the viewer. The fact that it disturbs the current way providers monetize their product is a problem for the them to solve, not for the viewer to inconvenience themselves to accommodate. The moment TiVo became a thing was a signal for providers to start moving to a new system, companies like Hulu and Netflix will flourish while others cancel good shows because viewers are not behaving the way they want them. You can’t put the genie back in the bottle, any network relying on “live viewers” is simply doing it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-streaming-vs-viewing-live-or-ondemand-or-dv-impact-the-networks-decision-on-renewing-shows/782038/7 "2017-03-13T01:00:16Z")
An interesting bit to throw into the mix here - how much does Hulu pay to be able to stream [South Park](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/south-park-ups-massive-hulu-807269)? $192 million for 5 years of streaming. > [@](#): > > … For Comedy Central and its parent Viacom, its 50/50 split of the Hulu deal with the show’s creators, Trey Parker and Matt Stone, represents one of the first instances where digital monies will underwrite current production costs. … > > … The deal, too, is evidence in Viacom’s argument that the recent ratings drop at its cable networks marks not so much a weakness in cable but an as-yet-largely-unmeasured expansion of the audience across digital platforms. This deal helps monetize that shift in audience. … ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-streaming-vs-viewing-live-or-ondemand-or-dv-impact-the-networks-decision-on-renewing-shows/782038/8 "2017-03-13T06:12:31Z")
Another bit to throw in. Advertising revenue is important but it’s not king for the studios. [Affiliate and retransmission fees are.](http://seekingalpha.com/article/200840-retransmission-advertising-fees-transform-tv) For [Disney media](http://marketrealist.com/2015/09/disneys-media-networks-affiliate-fees-advertising-revenues/) for example the narrow majority of revenue comes from affiliate fees and only 37% from advertising.