# How Does "Suicide" Work??? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 20, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239 "2003-02-20T00:20:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/41 "2003-02-20T16:46:35Z")
**AcidKid** would you kindly apologize about that first triple posted remark, I see you apologized about triple posting, but the hurtfulness of the remark itself remains to be healed. Or you might want to come over [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164424) instead. **FisherQueen** what a great idea, I might just use that if there is a next time I get suicidal, thanks. Cheers, Bippy ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/42 "2003-02-20T16:53:37Z")
**jlzania** what you are talking about is chosing death over unhealable pain and suffering, something that is very sane and I believe should be a persons right. I don’t believe such an action should ever be called suicide. On the other hand **Mad Dog 20/20** and others including myself, have considered chosing death over **healable** suffering. That is the big difference. Such a choice isn’t ‘sane’ but if you don’t know that the suffering is healable it certainly seems like a sane choice. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/43 "2003-02-20T17:01:25Z")
\<\< Hey everyone - ease of the medical solutions, ok? \>\> Most people are saying “seek professional help.” Whether the professional provides medication depends on the situation. The reason that most people are commenting that medication can help is that the history of treating depression did not inspire confidence until the last 20 years or so. Talk-therapy alone was not usually very successful, and so many people (such as the parents of depressives) pooh-pooh the idea of going for professional help. The “oh-just-snap-out-of-it” philosophy is dangerous and usually ineffective, but it is the common reaction of parents. Posters who are saying that pharmacological treatments **are** effective are really saying: Go seek professional help, IT IS OFTEN VERY EFFECTIVE. It’s trying to overcome the notion that professional help is useless. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/44 "2003-02-20T17:12:29Z")
\*\* Bippy\*\*, I recognize the distinction. However, the state of Texas does not. My father, in his periods of lucidity, begged me to shoot him or requested that I supply him with whatever was necessary for him to terminate his life. All he wanted by that point was a death with a modicum of dignity. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/45 "2003-02-20T17:14:01Z")
> [@](#): > > I have deleted links in AcidKid’s posts, because suicide is illegal in most states. We do not permit links to illegal activities. I feel sorta dumb asking this, but isn’t a law against suicide pretty stupid? What are they going to do, lock your corpse up in prison? Put your skeleton on probation? Is suicide really against the law or just assisted suicide or attempted suicide (if a failed attempt, what is the penalty?) ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/46 "2003-02-20T17:18:26Z")
**jlzania** I am very sorry for the situation that the world put you in. I hope that things change in Texas and elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/47 "2003-02-20T17:33:14Z")
**Diane** , I think the traditional penalty is execution. Try and determine if I’m joking. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/48 "2003-02-20T17:39:59Z")
Ba da dum. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DarrenS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DarrenS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarrenS)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/49 "2003-02-20T17:51:12Z")
Another way to look at it: If you’re determined to kill yourself, why not try medication and counseling first? What have you got to lose? If you are interested in the mindset of those who commit suicide, a good (but by definition morbid) book is “…Or Not To Be” - Mark Etkind. It’s a collection of suicide notes, and provides a bit of a glimpse into a mind that wants to destroy itself. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/50 "2003-02-20T17:57:44Z")
Thanks **Bippy** but it happened over 7 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misery_Loves_Co)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/51 "2003-02-20T17:57:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven \* > \*\*\<\< Hey everyone - ease of the medical solutions, ok? \>\> > > Most people are saying “seek professional help.” Whether the professional provides medication depends on the situation. > > It’s trying to overcome the notion that professional help is useless. \*\* Bleecchhhh… First **off** I’m sorry I missed that glaring typo. Secondly: I suppose you’re right, and you have no idea how much that fucking sticks in my craw - “Hey everyone - if you can’t medicate it, it doesn’t exist!! Any problem can be solved by getting so goddamned stoned out of your fucking gourd that you turn into an automaton. . .” (This ain’t ranting at you, **Dexter** btw - I hope you get that). Y’know what’s ironic? it’s the above mentality that opens up the dark doors in my psyche: That the average individual is so brainwashed and in such desperate need for quick, clumsy fixes. It destroys my faith in people and the world in general. True therapy is NOT “Get over it.”. There are bad therapists and good therapists, and good therapists do not assume that such an asinine piece of retarded donkey-shit advice will actually fix the problem. The problem is that knee-jerk medication and the belief that for every sickness is a quick, simple medical cure is perfectly analogous to “Get over it” as a solution. But people are much quicker to assume merit in a drug solution than talk-therapy. It’s ignorant bullshit. Sorry for the hijack. I’m gonna go pound on something now until the world looks brighter. ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/52 "2003-02-20T18:07:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven \* > \*\*\<\< Hey everyone - ease of the medical solutions, ok? \>\> > > Most people are saying “seek professional help.” Whether the professional provides medication depends on the situation. > > \*\* If the help stops at counseling, I don’t see any negative consequences from that. However, IIRC, there are some situations in which you have to answer questions like “have you been treated for mental illness in the past 10 years?” I recall reading an article about people who were encouraged to take mind-altering drugs, whose health care paid for it, and as a result their health care rates went up because they used the drugs. So if you don’t really need the drugs, it could be costing you money. And having a history of being treated for mental illness might come up in other situations, like applying for certain federal jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/53 "2003-02-20T18:40:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mad Dog 20/20 \* > \*\*When does one pass from the fairly blase stage of “not really having a will to live” to the more active stage of “not actually wanting to live?” > \ > My question, though, is how do these feelings “work?” When do these feelings cease being just feelings, and actually start being potential actions? > [/SIZE] \*\* Quick note: I’m mildly bipolar, so this observation is paraphrasing my therapist who helps me keep it in check. Once, while on a particularly bad low, I became alarmed by the fact that I felt so bad I wanted to die – scary thought! So off to therapy I went, emergency session! Panicked by the thought “I _don’t_ want to die! So how come I feel like I want to die??” I was terrified that I was in mortal danger. Now this is how it was explained to me: “Wanting to die” and “wanting to destroy yourself” are two very separate mechanisms. The former isn’t about hurting yourself, it is more about _escape_ – trying to find relief from the emotional misery. So feeling really, really, really bad to the point where you ponder suicide as an option is an indication that you are searching for any method to “not feel horrible.” It is to an extent somewhat passive. You want the pain to stop – period. Think of this analogy: My neighbours have a yappy, little dog that barks all night and keeps me awake. Yes, I _really_ want the barking to stop. However, I don’t want to kill the dog. I want silence, not to hurt, maim and/or destroy the dog. That’s how the mechanisms are different. Potential actions come more often from the “wanting to destroy yourself.” I don’t quite understand that so much (we didn’t address it because it didn’t apply to me.) But it was described loosely as being like wanting to hurt the dog in order to achieve silence. It is a destructive way of asserting control over a situation where you feel you have no control at all. And there is sometimes a desire to “punish.” It is like going over to the neighbours’ and kicking the dog in the teeth to make it just shut up. Or poisoning it. If you are suffering from severe depression and the thought crosses your mind, it is _crucially important_ to get help. Severe depression can be very dangerous. When “thoughts become actions” depends entirely on the individual. You can become so despondent that your reasoning skills are impaired. And the impulse of “I shouldn’t be here on Earth, I should remove myself” seems logical. There are therapists who are non-MDs and who have sliding scales for payment. Even if you can’t keep up with long-term therapy, some kind of qualified intervention is recommended for the really rough spots. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/54 "2003-02-20T18:49:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mad Dog 20/20 \* > \*\*When does one pass from the fairly blase stage of “not really having a will to live” to the more active stage of “not actually wanting to live?” > > Emotionally, I am not a happy camper right now and occasionally I entertain the idea of not being a camper at all anymore. But, all in all, I certainly don’t honestly want to exit the campground. It’s just an idea. (Please don’t call my ISP and report me, this is only a messageboard thread!)\*\* I know I’m new here and all, so please forgive me if this is presumptuous, but PLEASE, see a counselor. I went through a horrible clinical depression about 3 years ago, it started just as you describe and escalated to the point where the direction my thoughts were taking was getting pretty scary. As another poster said, there are good meds out there, and as unpleasant a thought as “needing” to take medication can be, the alternative is worse. One caveat, IF you do decide to go this route, try to steer your counselor or doctor away from the Paxil family (includes Zoloft etc) the side effects, once a person is deemed ready to quit, are truly miserable even on the lighter end, and for some people can cause long lasting effects. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/55 "2003-02-20T18:50:49Z")
This discussion was already covered in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=156618&highlight=tripolar) thread. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/56 "2003-02-20T19:32:17Z")
Look for a solution that works for you. If it’s therapy, wonderful. If it’s some sort of drug, cool. From my personal experience, both can be effective, and you really do need someone to help you figure out medicine doses and such and tell you if what you’re experiencing (side effects etc) is normal or if you should discontinue the meds and get on something else. When I was suicidal part of the reason was that I just wanted the pain to stop. I didn’t see (and still, for the most part, don’t) any of it as my fault. And for me there really wasn’t much to be done except wait it out, which sentiment I would not have taken kindly to hearing back then, because it’s a lot more passive than someone who is suicidal is apt to want to do. There are rarely quick fixes. Mine was from what I gather an extraordinarily rare case: I took the meds one night and **literally** woke up the next morning and felt fine. I went back to the doctor a week or so ago and told him this and he _almost_ didn’t believe me. But my father had seen it and vouched for me. What is more often the case is that it takes days or weeks (usually) to get used to a drug, particularly the side effects. That drug was Zoloft, just in case you wanted to know, and I ended up going on it again. It had most of the same effects as before. The good thing about Zoloft for me was that you really truly cannot OD on it. The worst that ever happened to me was when I was going through a particularly rough patch of time (June of 2000 … and I’m not just talking board stuff then either) and I didn’t want to feel so damn depressed. So I took 300 mg (I was on less than 50 a day at that time) of Zoloft about an hour before class and just as an experiment I tried to think about some of the stuff I’d been so depressed over. I (again) literally could not mentally contain a sad thought. I’d think “X horrible thing happened” and I couldn’t even keep concentrated on that thought for much longer than it took to think it. I guess what I’m trying to say is find something that works for you. For me, it was Zoloft. For some friends of mine, it’s been Prozac or Paxil or Celexa or whatnot. Others of my friends go pure therapy and it’s done great for them. Some combine drugs and therapy. Find what would for you and stick with it as best you can. Best of luck:) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/57 "2003-02-20T21:15:47Z")
Well, if watching a train wreck is therapeutic, **Mad Dog** is probably on the road to recovery. Thinking about suicide is not uncommon in major depression. When you’re under the influence of the Black Dog (I think this was Churchill’s name for depression) your horizons shrink and it’s very hard to see your way to better times. But this is not the time for a major life decision like suicide\*. One is just not lucid enough during serious depression. In addition to talking to decent and qualified people, exercise and often medication are important. Improvement with the right drug(s) can be startling. People who talk about depression as being exaggerated and just something sufferers complain about for the sake of attention etc., remind me of a well-fed Dickens character who used to fold his hands over his oversized belly after a big meal, and marvel that there could be any hungry people in the world. If you’ve experienced major depression, you would never display such an attitude. \*hoping that this is an improvement over **AcidKid** in the irony department. **Mad Dog** , you hang in there. There’re good folks who can help you, and it’s worth the search. ---
**Author:** ![Kill\_Me\_Now](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@Kill\_Me\_Now](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kill_Me_Now)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/58 "2003-02-20T21:44:09Z")
I love showering myself with pity and writing suicide notes to everyone i know that could shoot down any angle or piece of mind they tried to grasp. Telling everyone how it was or wasnt their fault for my self-righteous suicide. Trying to conjour out just the right amount of guilt from each unfortunate soul that had the pleasure of ‘killing me’. Then I wrestle with my inner-demons for an hour or so trying to rationalize my self-inflicted death. In the end I always think of my 5 year old brother who doesnt deserve the pain of seeing my mother deal with my death. Absolutely NO ONE deserves to lose a loved one to depression. I am new to this message board but not to depression. Kill Me Now. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/59 "2003-02-20T22:18:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RexDart \* > \*\*If the help stops at counseling, I don’t see any negative consequences from that. > > However, IIRC, there are some situations in which you have to answer questions like “have you been treated for mental illness in the past 10 years?” I recall reading an article about people who were encouraged to take mind-altering drugs, whose health care paid for it, and as a result their health care rates went up because they used the drugs. So if you don’t really need the drugs, it could be costing you money. And having a history of being treated for mental illness might come up in other situations, like applying for certain federal jobs. \*\* Nah, why seek potentially life-saving treatment? You don’t want to risk losing out on a job as a census taker. :rolleyes: There are a gazillion people in this country who’ve needed help at one time or another, including psychotropic medications. The labor pool would shrink to a tiny puddle if they were all excluded from employment. Worrying about what to say on a future job application should be _way_ down the list of concerns. How appropriate that **Kill Me Now** is here to lend a hand. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239/60 "2003-02-20T22:38:07Z")
[Originally posted by RexDart If the help stops at counseling, I don’t see any negative consequences from that. ## However, IIRC, there are some situations in which you have to answer questions like “have you been treated for mental illness in the past 10 years?” I recall reading an article about people who were encouraged to take mind-altering drugs, whose health care paid for it, and as a result their health care rates went up because they used the drugs. So if you don’t really need the drugs, it could be costing you money. And having a history of being treated for mental illness might come up in other situations, like applying for certain federal jobs. Actually, I just recently filled out an application for a classified position for a gov’t agency with which our company has a contract. It did ask if there was a history of mental illness, but it (the form) went on to clarify that you were not to include treatment for clinical depression as having a “history of mental illness”. I’ve seen similar questions when applying for other types of gov’t jobs or bids. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-suicide-work/156239.md?page=4)