# How does Superman fly
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [November 25, 2014, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556 "2014-11-25T03:28:02Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/61 "2014-11-26T19:28:28Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> That’s why I find it weird these days when people talk about Batman being more famous than Superman. Sure, his latest movies have been better, but Superman is etched into worldwide culture in a way that Batman never can be.
Batman can never be as popular as superman because superman was big 70 years ago?
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### Author:  [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/62 "2014-11-26T19:31:59Z")
**How does Superman fly**
Red Bull gives him wings!!
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### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/63 "2014-11-26T19:32:17Z")
Interesting point you raise, though, and sorry if I missed the implication. If Superman is flying on radio by 1940 he’s equal with if not beating Hawkman and Green Lantern, although the cartoons and comics don’t catch up until later. But if Sub-Mariuner was flying in 1939, he has an edge. I know he flew later, but did he fly in 1939?
Namor’s nemesis, the Human Torch, was flying in his first appearance in October 1939, IIRC, and was certainly doing so later. So that shows two two possibilities before Superman ever flew, even on radio.
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/64 "2014-11-26T19:50:59Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#):
>
> Batman can never be as popular as superman because superman was big 70 years ago?
I took EM to mean that Superman’s overall pop culture impact is greater than Batman’s, despite Batman’s currently greater popularity.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/65 "2014-11-26T20:23:39Z")
As I alluded to above, well before they debuted Superman in '38, Siegel and Shuster got a DOCTOR OCCULT story published where Doc flies around.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/66 "2014-11-26T20:29:49Z")
Submitted for your consideration: [OGON BAT](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8Cgon_Bat).
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### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/67 "2014-11-26T20:48:59Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> Submitted for your consideration: [OGON BAT](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8Cgon_Bat).
That link doesn’t work for me.
> **[The Golden Bat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8Cgon_Bat)**
>
> Ōgon Bat (Japanese: 黄金 バット, Hepburn: Ōgon Batto, literally Golden Bat), known as Phantaman or Fantomas in various countries outside Japan, is a Japanese superhero created by Suzuki Ichiro and Takeo Nagamatsu in autumn of 1930 who originally debuted in a kamishibai (paper theater). Ōgon Bat is considered by some to be the world's first superhero, and is a precursor to later superhero characters such as the Japanese kamishibai character Prince of Gamma (debut early 1930s), and the American Ōgon Bat...
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/68 "2014-11-26T20:49:37Z")
Before there was Batman, there was Superman.
But before either of 'em, there was [The Human Bat](http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/Human_Bat).
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### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/69 "2014-11-26T20:52:05Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> As I alluded to above, well before they debuted Superman in '38, Siegel and Shuster got a DOCTOR OCCULT story published where Doc flies around.
Based on the Wikipedia page, it looks as if Doctor Occult flew afdter his first issue:
> [@](#):
>
> The character first appeared in New Fun Comics #6 in 1935. He was a supernatural detective, whose detecting style was very much in the style of Sam Spade, only with supernatural abilities. He was assisted by his butler Jenkins in one adventure. His girlfriend/partner called Rose Psychic appeared in his first adventure and then returned again later in the series.
>
> He also appeared in Centaur Publications’ The Comics Magazine #1 under the name “Dr. Mystic”. This was the same character because his story, “The Koth and the Seven”, began in The Comics Magazine and continued in DC’s More Fun Comics #14-17 (issues also designated as vol. 2, #2-5). In this story, he travels to a mystic realm where he flies and wears a cape, making him the first caped comic book superhero. This story also introduced the Seven, a group of mystics who would later be retconned into having raised Richard Occult and Rose Psychic. Doctor Occult made his last original appearance in More Fun Comics #32 in 1938.
>
> He later appeared in Crisis on Infinite Earths (1986), The Books of Magic (1991), Vertigo Visions: Dr. Occult (June 1994), and The Trenchcoat Brigade (1999).
It’s all pre-Superman, though.
And Ogon Bat seems to beat them all.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/70 "2014-11-26T22:00:10Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> Before there was Batman, there was Superman.
>
> But before either of 'em, there was [The Human Bat](http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/Human_Bat).
From that link:
> [@](#):
>
> When his political rival in parliament attempts to swindle John’s father out of his fortune, the family’s butler provides John with a caped suit that allows him to glide through the air.
That doesn’t count as flying, IMO.
As for Ogon Bat, I’m unfamiliar with Kamishibai and the information on that page is minimal. From it, though, I’d say that the connection to comic strips or comic books is also minimal. What’s the claim being made?
Snarky, despite the snark I’m saying that Superman is the default image of what a superhero is, has been, and in all likelihood always will be to more people in more places than any other creation.
We can argue Batman’s importance. As a mortal who wills himself to greatness he’s another archetype, but one in a long series of them. Superman has precursors but they’re not as culturally important. Batman’s precursors include Sherlock Holmes, who is. Batman is also night to Superman’s day, an opposite in almost every way. They include between them almost every point that one can tick off, which doesn’t leave much room for other archetypes and is why the only other culturally important superhero is Wonder Woman. But nobody seriously argues that Wonder Woman is Superman’s equal in world recognition, and I don’t think you can make that argument for Batman either. That people haven’t made as good movies about Superman recently is a blip on the radar. The two recent Sherlock Holmes movies weren’t all that wonderful either but he’s a major worldwide character still.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/71 "2014-11-26T22:09:41Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> We can argue Batman’s importance. As a mortal who wills himself to greatness he’s another archetype, but one in a long series of them. Superman has precursors but they’re not as culturally important.
Hercules?
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2014, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/72 "2014-11-26T23:02:45Z")
Most of the standard superhero powers have also been attributed at one time or another to various saints.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2014, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/73 "2014-11-26T23:02:47Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> Hercules?
I was thinking of fictional characters like in Philip Wylie’s _Gladiator_ and Doc Savage.
Hercules doesn’t count because he was a god and by definition all stories about gods are literally true. Or that’s what I’ve learned from other threads on this board. I certainly won’t differentiate among religious beliefs.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/74 "2014-11-27T01:50:06Z")
“What was the point of Lex Luthor? A human being who dared to challenge a god, he was surely the greatest of his kind.” - Superman
“Gods are selfish beings who fly around in little red capes and don’t share their power with mankind.” - Lex Luthor
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### Author:  [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/75 "2014-11-27T02:47:38Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> WTF? He halts himself in mid-air after falling 15,000 feet - but Lothar has to gather a pile of snow for him to fall softly into? That’s \*easier \*to believe?
In a world where polar bears live at the south pole, anything is possible.
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### Author:  [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/76 "2014-11-27T16:39:47Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> Hawkman was flying while Superman was still leaping – and with considerably bigger wings than the Sub-Mariner has, but you’d still better suspend that disbelief.
Hawkman didn’t use the wings for lift. He had an anti-gravity device built into that medallion on his chest. The wings just allowed him to maneuver.
See? No suspension of disbelief required.
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### Author:  [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/77 "2014-11-27T17:05:28Z")
> [@Caneknife](#):
>
> How does Superman fly
Ok, now this is a spoiler. If you Really don’t want to know, don’t click.
I’m not kidding, guys. You could literally Ruin someone’s childhood. Its a Holiday. Look around the room because the people behind you? They’ll be able to read this. When you are sure its safe, Then click the spoiler box.
**Strings.**
No really, they shoved an actor into a suit, tied strings to all his limbs in many different and mostly painful spots, and then hoisted him up to the rafters. Sometimes they’d swing him in a kind of a pan or arc
across the view of the camera. I mean, think about it. Why would Dean Cain smile so much in his standing scenes?
The Sheer Joy of Uninterrupted Blood Flow to all of his exterior limbs…
“Look, up in the sky…!”
“Its a bird…!”
“Its a plane…!”
“Its NOT ARCHING It’s BACK! _ **CUT** _ Jesus, what did they Teach you at Princeton? How that town stays dry I’ll NEVER know…”
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/78 "2014-11-27T18:11:11Z")
> [@Cayuga](#):
>
> Hawkman didn’t use the wings for lift. He had an anti-gravity device built into that medallion on his chest.
Belt, wasn’t it?
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### Author:  [@DarkFire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarkFire)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/79 "2014-11-27T20:21:59Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#):
>
> Hancock is one of my favorite depictions of what life would be like for somebody with Superman’s powers.
>
> Until the second half of the movie, and then things kind of go to hell.
I seem to recall that whenever they showed Clark/Superman flying in the tv showSmallville, he was gathering energy and then pushing off, sometimes resulting in cracked pavement.
Smallville was very smart about his powers, they kept growing and growing.
First he was just fast and could jump far, eventually he managed to turn that into flying. No specific reason on how he did that was given iirc.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-superman-fly/705556/80 "2014-11-27T20:35:11Z")
> [@DarkFire](#):
>
> I seem to recall that whenever they showed Clark/Superman flying in the tv showSmallville, he was gathering energy and then pushing off, sometimes resulting in cracked pavement.
> Smallville was very smart about his powers, they kept growing and growing.
> First he was just fast and could jump far, eventually he managed to turn that into flying. No specific reason on how he did that was given iirc.
He could fly even in season one; what he eventually developed was conscious control. Remember how he woke up floating above the bed, like a sleepwalker from Krypton?
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