# How does the church determine what is to be considered a miracle? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-church-determine-what-is-to-be-considered-a-miracle/219432 "2003-12-17T00:51:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UnclePoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/edb3f5/32.png) [@UnclePoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnclePoo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-church-determine-what-is-to-be-considered-a-miracle/219432/1 "2003-12-17T00:51:01Z")
How does the church determine what is considered to be a miracle? I never really thought that anyone actually kept track of miracles but I recently learned that Mother Teresa needs to have a certain amount of them accredited to her before she can be given the title of Saint. Is there a list of these deeds publicly available for scientific revue? Who has the final say in the matter? Is there a miracle revue board there in the Vatican? This topic seems ridiculous to me but then again so does all of organized religion. Please enlighten me. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-church-determine-what-is-to-be-considered-a-miracle/219432/2 "2003-12-17T01:06:21Z")
If you want a factual account of the Catholic Church’s system, you should have posted in GQ. In this forum, you’ll get smug assertions that there are no miracles, followed by appeals to faith, followed by angry epistemological debates. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-church-determine-what-is-to-be-considered-a-miracle/219432/3 "2003-12-17T01:11:36Z")
It’s a fairly lengthy and complex process. First, the person must have lived an extroadinarily exemplary Christian life. Mother Theresa definitely falls into this category. Now, the miracles. She needs two. They don’t necessarily have to be performed during her earthly life. What happens is, someone asks her for intercessory prayer on their behalf. Say someone is seriously ill, the doctors say “Nothing we can do”, and they ask Mother Theresa to pray for them, wham, bang, they’re cured, suddenly, without medical intervention. The doctors call it “spontaneous remission”. The Church investigates the case, and if it is satisfied that there is no earthly explanation for the cure, it is declared a miracle. Hope that helps. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-church-determine-what-is-to-be-considered-a-miracle/219432/4 "2003-12-17T02:10:07Z")
Note that “the Church” here equals the Roman Catholic Church. It and it alone expects proof of three miracles to declare someone a saint. The consensus opinion of people who have known a deceased holy person, reviewed by hierarchy (bishops etc.), is a rough summary of how Eastern Orthodox recognize saints. (One of our Orthodox members can expand and correct that – it’s intended only as a rough cut.) Similarly, in the Episcopal Church, petitions to General Convention calling for someone to be added to the Calendar of Saints get voted on, and a majority vote lands the person on that on the anniversary of his/her death. I believe a similar procedure applies elsewhere in the Anglican Communion. In general, Protestants do not recognize big-S Saints as distinct from the idea that all Christians are saints, other than the Twelve Apostles, Paul, Mark, and Luke in some denominations. (I don’t have a clue what Lutherans do.) ---
**Author:** ![nani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@nani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nani)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-church-determine-what-is-to-be-considered-a-miracle/219432/5 "2003-12-17T03:16:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*Note that “the Church” here equals the Roman Catholic Church. It and it alone expects proof of three miracles to declare someone a saint. \*\* Actually, only 2 miracles are required. Not only that, they have to have taken place after death, in the form described by Thea Logica. The term miracle itself is a theological term that is defined (In the Catholic sense, since this is apparently what the OP is talking about) right [here.](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10338a.htm) Beatification and Canonization, the names given to the process of recognizing Saints, is further defined [here,](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02364b.htm) , once again in excruciating detail. Chau ---
**Author:** ![SlickRoenick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SlickRoenick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlickRoenick)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-church-determine-what-is-to-be-considered-a-miracle/219432/6 "2015-12-18T23:45:32Z")
just like that, damn near 12 years later (sorry for the zombie revival!!), the Pope will be canonization Mother Teresa after confirming her second miracle cite (b/c it’s great debates?) [http://www.msn.com/en-in/news/national/mother-teresa-to-be-made-catholic-saint-next-year-report/ar-BBnGr5Q?ocid=ansmsnnews11](http://www.msn.com/en-in/news/national/mother-teresa-to-be-made-catholic-saint-next-year-report/ar-BBnGr5Q?ocid=ansmsnnews11) ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-church-determine-what-is-to-be-considered-a-miracle/219432/7 "2015-12-18T23:51:07Z")
There is actually a book by journalist Randy Sullivan, _[The Miracle Detective](http://www.amazon.com/Miracle-Detective-Randall-Sullivan/dp/0802141951/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1450482728&sr=1-1&keywords=The+Miracle+Detective)_, which delves into the question that the OP asked. ---
**Author:** ![JWT\_Kottekoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@JWT\_Kottekoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JWT_Kottekoe)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-church-determine-what-is-to-be-considered-a-miracle/219432/8 "2015-12-19T00:01:19Z")
A few decades ago, Father Guido Sarducci on “Saturday Night Live” went on a rant about downgrading the requirements from four miracles to three. [The full transcript](http://snltranscripts.jt.org/78/78oupdate.phtml) is available, but here is an excerpt. > [@Father Guido Sarducci](#): > > You know, you don’t have-a a patron saint for the United States, but there are some American saints. Just the last couple of years they made-a some. The first was-a about-a two years ago. Her name was-a Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton. Mother Seton-is-a what they call her. And she’s got-a these nuns of her own order who lobby-they’re real heavy-they came to Rome and everything. And it’s amazing, you see. To be made a saint in-a the catholic church, you have to have-a four miracles. That’s-a the rules, you know. It’s-a always been that-a. Four miracles, and-a to prove it. Well, this-a Mother Seton-now they could only prove-a three miracles. But the Pope-he just waved the fourth one. He just waved it! And do you know why? It’s-a because she was American. It’s all-a politics. We got-a some Italian-a people, they got-a forty, fifty, sixty miracles to their name. They can’t-a get in just cause they say there’s already too many Italian saints, and this woman comes along with-a three lousy miracles. I understand that-a two of them was-a card tricks. Next thing you know, they’re gonna be making Kreskin a saint. Saint Kreskin-they’ll probably call him. It’s a good one. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-church-determine-what-is-to-be-considered-a-miracle/219432/9 "2015-12-19T00:10:23Z")
A miracle! This thread is arisen!!