# how does the government take something illegal off the internet? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 2, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-government-take-something-illegal-off-the-internet/282631 "2005-01-02T03:01:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![vinniepaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@vinniepaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vinniepaz)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-government-take-something-illegal-off-the-internet/282631/1 "2005-01-02T03:01:11Z")
Say the government finds something illegal on the internet and wants to remove it. How would they do it? Contact the ISP and have them do it? What if the person is his own ISP? Would they actually find the server and unplug it? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-government-take-something-illegal-off-the-internet/282631/2 "2005-01-02T03:04:08Z")
My guess is that they contact the website’s author. If they don’t comply, they’d go after the ISP. I would think an ISP owner would gladly sacrifice one member to prevent the Feds from confiscating their equipment (assuming they would, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Spongemom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Spongemom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spongemom)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-government-take-something-illegal-off-the-internet/282631/3 "2005-01-02T03:23:04Z")
I just figured it was the same way hackers did it, only more hard core. ---
**Author:** ![TJdude825](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@TJdude825](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJdude825)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-government-take-something-illegal-off-the-internet/282631/4 "2005-01-02T04:29:44Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > My guess is that they contact the website’s author. If they don’t comply, they’d go after the ISP. I would think an ISP owner would gladly sacrifice one member to prevent the Feds from confiscating their equipment (assuming they would, of course). They could probably terminate the person’s service pretty easily, if there is a signed agreement that says “Don’t use our service to do things that are illegal.” ---
**Author:** ![KP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a9adbd/32.png) [@KP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KP)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-government-take-something-illegal-off-the-internet/282631/5 "2005-01-02T04:39:05Z")
Based on a number of recent cases, they go straight to the ISP. It’s just easier, because the ISP is almost never willing to put up with the slightest risk of hassle, where the author might. Besides, if the ISP does it, the website can silently go dark instantly, while the site owner might take a few days to get around to it (and might find an alternate venue, if alerted). If the material is illegal due to alleged copyright violation, the ISP is actually obligated to act immediately, upon notice by an alleged copyright holder (meaning that they can be held partly liable if they _don’t_ yank the offending material, and the alleged copyright holder proves their copyright in court). I’m less familiar with the specific laws in the case of “intrinsically illegal” material, like child porn or government secrets, but I’m pretty sure that the ISP would be even quicker to yank those, even wiithout legal culpability. Actually, I shouldn’t say “ISP”. An ISP [Internet Service Provider] supplies a connection to the Internet. You can’t “be your own ISP” because, unless you’re one of the handful of backbone providers, you’re always getting your connection from someone upstream. Even IBM or Microsoft have upstream providers. I think the term you’re looking for is Web Host. Anyone can easily be their own web host, by running a server on an internet connection of any kind. Many ISPs provide web space, but that’s not part of the definition of ISP. ---
**Author:** ![Nail\_Bunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@Nail\_Bunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nail_Bunny)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-government-take-something-illegal-off-the-internet/282631/6 "2005-01-02T05:09:06Z")
i thought that only works if the isp is ether A: in the US. or B: in a country that is friendly to the US. the reason i say this is because i know a lot of bittorrent sites are run in countries that don’t really care. this has been a problem for MPAA, although the Fed probably have more pull then the MPAA i could be wrong about this though Nail ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-government-take-something-illegal-off-the-internet/282631/7 "2005-01-02T06:01:49Z")
You are right, **Nail Bunny**. It’s quite difficult for the US government to yank a site hosted in another country. Otherwise it wouldn’t be so easy for the all those terrorist groups to webcast videos of decapitations. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-government-take-something-illegal-off-the-internet/282631/8 "2005-01-02T07:23:30Z")
It’s also becoming difficult for them to yank content from P2P networks. Some networks (I have one in mind but won’t mention it) are designed for anonymity and widespread distribution, so that a certain piece of content might be hosted by a single person, or a dozen, or a thousand. You can’t tell how many people are hosting it or who they are–even the people who are hosting it don’t know they’re doing so–and when you try to download the file, you end up spreading it to even more hosts automatically. The only way for something to disappear from these networks is for everyone to stop requesting it, so it’ll eventually be replaced on all its hosts by more popular content. As you might imagine, a lot of the content on these networks is either so illegal that it _needs_ that kind of protection, or so kooky that it could only be produced by the kind of paranoid lunatic who _thinks_ he needs that much protection. ---
**Author:** ![vinniepaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@vinniepaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vinniepaz)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-government-take-something-illegal-off-the-internet/282631/9 "2005-01-02T07:26:08Z")
hmmm interesting. could it get to the point that the Feds would actually have to physically unplug and/or take a fireaxe to his server? ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-government-take-something-illegal-off-the-internet/282631/10 "2005-01-02T07:44:38Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > It’s also becoming difficult for them to yank content from P2P networks. Some networks (I have one in mind but won’t mention it) are designed for anonymity and widespread distribution, so that a certain piece of content might be hosted by a single person, or a dozen, or a thousand. You can’t tell how many people are hosting it or who they are–even the people who are hosting it don’t know they’re doing so–and when you try to download the file, you end up spreading it to even more hosts automatically. The only way for something to disappear from these networks is for everyone to stop requesting it, so it’ll eventually be replaced on all its hosts by more popular content. > > As you might imagine, a lot of the content on these networks is either so illegal that it _needs_ that kind of protection, or so kooky that it could only be produced by the kind of paranoid lunatic who _thinks_ he needs that much protection. Yes, I love that network. Did they ever find out whether the murders were for real? I saw something recently that said they were a scam/urban legend. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-government-take-something-illegal-off-the-internet/282631/11 "2005-01-02T07:51:52Z")
> [@Testy](#): > > Yes, I love that network. Did they ever find out whether the murders were for real? I saw something recently that said they were a scam/urban legend. They were fake. I believe an admission was hidden in the HTML comments of the page describing the original murder. (One of them, anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-government-take-something-illegal-off-the-internet/282631/12 "2005-01-02T08:27:16Z")
I read one of those, extremely creepy. The network is a beautiful creation though, ultimate FoS. I’ve been showing this (the network) to a few people that come by the house. Oddly, most of them have no idea what it is good for or why you’d want it. Topics like encryption, anonymous posting, and similar security issues just slide right off. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![vinniepaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@vinniepaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vinniepaz)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-government-take-something-illegal-off-the-internet/282631/13 "2005-01-02T08:39:46Z")
OK OK I give! What the hell are you guys talking about? ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-government-take-something-illegal-off-the-internet/282631/14 "2005-01-02T09:03:23Z")
> [@vinniepaz](#): > > OK OK I give! What the hell are you guys talking about? They are talking about Freenet, a project to allow the completely an anonymous & secure method of placing things on the net. Basically, everything placed on there is encryted and spread out among numerous computers; nobody knows what is on each specific computer, so that makes even the fireax approach to shutting down stuff ineffective - after all if you don’t even know what the stuff on your machine is, how would the feds? I tried it out for a bit, but there is lots of illegal stuff, right in the “open”, and the network is slower than molasses right now. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-government-take-something-illegal-off-the-internet/282631/15 "2005-01-02T09:04:02Z")
It is called Freenet and is available from SourceForge as freeware. This is not really suitable as a file-trading network as it is slow as Christmas and not nearly as reliable as other P2Ps. Freenet makes up for it by being completely anonymous and distributed. There is no known way to remove something from Freenet, nor is a file located at any one point. Files are split into tiny chunks, encrypted using Yarrow, and distributed all over the network. There is some content such as movies and things available but the primary use of Freenet is for things such as whistle-blowing, political activism, and other news that might be frowned upon by governments. There is also an ap called Frost that has an I/F something like a news-reader that helps with finding things. Regards Testy